In this episode...

Sophia Noreen: Hello, hello, hello. I am so excited to introduce our guest for today. We are going to be speaking with Deborah Baldwin, who also goes by the name of Deb. And I am in love with this episode because she really does provide you a wealth of knowledge. She is a teacher, and she had been working for 38 years before she started her business. 

And now, her business generates six figures. And it's pretty passive income because she puts her digital knowledge-based product online and it sells itself. She has a perspective that you are going to love. She is basically letting you know that it's never too late to start your business. And there's a time and place for everything. I want you to listen to our candid chat. I do ask her our questions that I generally ask during our interviews. But we go on a couple of tangents, and I think they're wonderful because it does bring to light some of the struggles that we are all having inside. 

Now, a little bit more about Deb before we get deep into her story. But she did take the traditional route as a teacher. And she was happy she did so because it was able to give her the stability that she needed to raise her family. So listen for that when you hear our interview. Remember, if you do want to catch Deb, her handles are linked in the show notes. Or you can catch her saying it out loud at the end of the interview.  

Okay, guys, enough of me chatting by myself. Let's get on with our show. And remember, if you are enjoying our episodes, feel free to head to Apple iTunes and hit the five-star button and leave a review, or share this episode with a friend. Let's get on with our show.
 
 Laura Hargrave: Welcome everyone here at Boss It. We would love to hear from you. Join us in our Boss It community by heading over to our website, bossitclub.com, and join our mailing list. As we grow, we will be launching our community of fellow Boss It BFFs, and we want you to be a part of it. 

Okay, Sophia Noreen, let's dig into this. I can't wait to tell them all about how we got here.
 
 Sophia Noreen: Welcome to the Boss It Podcast. My name is Sophia Noreen and I took an Etsy startup and launched it in big-box retailers within 12 months. As a creative with an entrepreneurial drive, I left my full-time career in healthcare to find better harmony between career, family, and self-care. We believe you can have it all. Yes, you can launch and run a successful scalable business while maintaining harmony in all aspects of your life. We believe we can learn from each other and draw on many experiences to create the best life possible. During each episode, we will share proven life hacks that will keep you on top and striving every day.
 
There should be no hesitation. Make a plan. Take action. We are here for you! 

Sophia Noreen: Hello everyone. Welcome to another fantastic episode of the Boss It Podcast. And as you heard from the intro, I'm here with Deborah and we're going to talk to her about how she got into becoming her own boss and taking this crazy journey of being an entrepreneur. But before we get into her story, I want to say, hi Deborah, how are you? And tell us, what is your mantra?  

Deborah Baldwin: Thank you Sophia for asking me to do this. I love to talk on podcasts when I get a chance. I don't come from a time of mantras, but I can say that I live by certain things that I always believe which is hard work is its own reward. And I also have lived by this one forever, which is "You will never be inspired to action, but action will inspire you." I took piano as a child for 10 years. And because I took piano as a child, I seem to be able to kick in into anything that has to have a lot of discipline to it and is monotonous or programmed. That's very easy for me to just keep working because when you play piano for 10 years and you're playing an hour a day, you're just used to a certain level. So those are two of mine. I'm sure I have some others. 

Sophia Noreen: Those are very inspirational. And I love that second one, "You'll never be inspired to action, but action will inspire you." 

Deborah Baldwin: So for instance, when you know you have to clean the house and you absolutely don't want to do it, but you get going? Then you're okay doing it. I don't know what that is but I know that if I open up my computer and I get out my notes and I just started and I'm fine. And it's the way I have worked all my life. I just knuckled down. 

Sophia Noreen: That's great because bringing it to entrepreneurship, it is hard to get going between the mindset, the lack of time, the lack of energy, and just a lack of know-how, people get scared and then they don't get into action. But once you get into the action, it's motivating you to continue moving. 

Deborah Baldwin: And that's for sure. And sometimes, because we are different generations, which you and I were talking about earlier. My generation is all we know how to do is work really hard. If you ever talked to us or your parents or your grandparents, we're in generation just works really hard. 

I was a teacher for 38 years. My husband was a teacher for 40 years. That's all we knew to do, we just work hard, and we would stay late and we would just do the work. We never considered, well, I should probably go home now, and oh, I don't know, do some sort of thing just for me. It just didn't work that way until late in our careers, then you start to see those. 

Oh, that's a really good idea. Why am I giving up my whole life for this? But because I'm such a hard worker, it just comes naturally. I am intrinsically motivated. I don't have to have a group of people to motivate me sometimes and not very often. Sometimes I need people to just sound off and I need to say, 'Hey, I don't know how to do this or 'What do you guys think of this idea? I'm working on my course right now.' And every so often, I'll talk to my daughter who has a theater degree also and also to my husband and I'll say, 'Okay, this is where I'm at and it does that make sense to you? Or I'll talk to some friends and accountability pod or ECA. And that helps a little bit but primarily I'm very focused, I'm efficient and I just get it done. 

Sophia Noreen: And that probably comes from that discipline that you had growing up and you may have come in on this topic later on in the podcast, but let's touch on it now. The difference really between the generations and the fact that back when you grew up in the 1970s and 1960s, it was a different environment as we compare today. 

 And technology really has helped move our world to a place where, I don't even need to get off my couch anymore, and I can get the groceries to my doorstep. And if you think about that and how surreal that one example is, it kind of goes back to the point where you said, 'I'm just used to working hard and I'm intrinsically motivated, because if you weren't like that, you wouldn't have a roof of your head. 

Deborah Baldwin: Exactly. I was thinking as you stand down as a teacher because we didn't have things at our fingertips, because we had to use machines and we had to carbon, we didn't have another choice. So, if we didn't know any different, so we weren't sitting there going, oh, this is awful and I'm so tired of doing this. We never even thought of that. We just knew it was like, well, the cows have to be milked, so let's go do that. It's that sort of attitude. It's just no big deal. But at my age, you can carry it over past my first career. So going what I'm doing now with my own business, that's not a problem. That is easy to do. 

Sophia Noreen: It's about perspective, I think. And so, I don't fault anybody who hasn't had that opportunity to milk the cow because obviously our entire environment in North America, I should say, does not give you the opportunity unless you live close to a rural area. I'm using this figuratively, but also literally milking the cow because it's the lack of opportunity. 

And sometimes, if you don't have that perspective to make these bigger obstacles for us, especially in our business, like simple things, like we were talking about collaboration, right? How difficult it is to collaborate? But is it really difficult to collaborate? We just have to ask and the worst you're going to get is to get a no. So I think it's fascinating. I study anthropology guys. So again, I sometimes take these really quirky perspectives and that's probably because it's coming up from that lens but anyways, you can humor me. 

Deborah Baldwin: Exactly what has a theater person, I look through the lens of the arts. So I'm always on constantly analyzing why that person said that and why would somebody review a product that way. It doesn't have anything to do with me at all? We're trying to help somebody that's coming, I just don't know what to do, and I'm saying you're just overwhelmed. That does not mean, so I don't get overwhelmed or I don't have days where I'm thinking, I know it's worth it because I have money to prove that this is worth what I'm doing. And this is a whole lot easier than what I used to do. Working for myself and creating drama education products of all kinds is so much easier than what I did in my career. And it's much, much easier than what our core teachers are doing right now. And if I can help them, that's enough motivation for me. I have to remember, is there's somebody out there that tomorrow is going to want this lesson that I created and they know they can trust me because I did it for 38 years. And they know that if they use it and follow it properly as Deb told you to do, it will work for you. And that's my motivation.  

Sophia Noreen: Okay, so we're starting to go into your story. But we haven't told anybody yet who you are? Where did you come from? You're a teacher and I've gotten that from listening for the last five minutes, but give us whole details and give us everything. Give us a story and how you got into entrepreneurship.  

Deborah Baldwin: My name is Debbie Baldwin, but I go by Deb, generally, or Deborah. And I was a drama teacher for 38 years. When I finished high school, I really enjoyed theater a lot. And I ended up at Stevens College in Columbia, Missouri, which at the time was a professional and is still a professional acting program. I went there and I did really well. But my dad was a doctor and I trusted him and his knowledge and he said, well, I want you to get your teaching certificate anyway, in case you need them to fall back on it. 

 And I trusted what he said and I'm so glad I did it because when I came out in the mid-seventies, Broadway was dead, the theater was not doing well. And there were very few jobs and we didn't even have dinner theater yet, or regional theaters, like you, might find in Kansas City and St. Louis, even in Des Moines, Iowa, and things like that. We didn't have any of that. 

So I went to New York and I auditioned for a group of graduate students at schools. And I liked them, but we were young. We went through in three years and two summers and I ended I was young, like going into college. So I was just barely 18 and I just wasn't ready for that yet. And so I did the stupid thing and married a guy.  

Okay, cool. What were you doing? Well, I was doing what my family did. My brothers and sisters are 10 years younger. So what did they do? They got out of high school, went to college, met someone, and married them. Two out of three did that. Okay. And so, I thought, well, I guess that's what I'm supposed to do. Nobody in the family told me that you don't have to do that until it was too late. I married the guy and the only good thing that came out of that is we were out of that marriage in three years and we developed a community theater. Community theater can have a really bad rap and it really shouldn't because a lot of our professional actors and actresses came from a community theater in their town. 

And they grew up there and got used to it and acted with adults and children and whatnot. So I ran this community theater for, I was with it from 79 to 94. I was hired to teach speech and drama. I did teach English for a couple of years after the first marriage and married the guy I've been with for almost 40 years. 

 So I taught some English then I taught theater at this middle school in Columbia, Missouri, and it was really hard. I taught there for 13 years. We taught a pre elective class. So anybody that knows anything about teaching will tell you that's really hard. Then my husband and I got sick and tired of living in Columbia, Missouri for no other reason than we were just tired of living there and move way up into the mountains in Estes Park, Colorado. Meanwhile, I'm still teaching and I'm directing to the side and I'm making work for myself because it just worked for me. 

So I would just say, hey, you guys want to do the miracle worker? Yes, let's do the miracle work so I could create work for myself doing that. In Estes Park, Colorado up in the Rocky mountains and absolutely loved it and I taught school but then it was time to stop because I was to the point Sophia, where I was directing four musicals at once. 

 And four junior musicals at the same time and I had 24 different classes. So because it was a homeschooled enrichment program, so different kids came to you every day. At the time, that was the best way to do it. Now they've changed it somewhat since I've left because well, Deb, we can't keep doing this to every theater teacher. So it's a little more easier on the person who has the job now. But remember, I'm a hard worker. As our daughter and I say, we love to have a number of balls in the air, except that after a while, so I do it anymore because we've mastered it.  

Sophia Noreen: We get tired and we want to move on to the next check. 

Deborah Baldwin: Yes, because we figured out how to do. Look, I directed four. It really took a toll on my health and I said, okay, I need to retire. And since my husband, Sam was five years older and he'd already retired once in Missouri. And he was teaching a bit in Colorado. We decided to move to Lawrence, Kansas. And that's where our daughters were and our grandchildren were.  

And I couldn't wait to be a grandma because I didn't have a grandmother of my own to ever be very close to. So when it got to Lawrence, Kansas, and I put teaching, I tried a teaching gig. It was horrible. In a community college, I tried directing in a community theater here, it too was terrible. I think the universe or God, or someone was telling me, no, no, we don't want you doing those things. You ever had said to me all along, why don't you take all your lessons and put them into a book? 

I just think people could use them. And I blew it off and said, no, don't want these. And then I looked into it and I went to teachers pay teachers, and teachers pay teachers if people don't know it's based on the Etsy model. So it is a marketplace for educators. resources. So there are thousands of teachers.  

It's modeled after Etsy. So in Etsy, everybody has their own store, but we're all our own store. But they handle all the legal junk and the software to upload. So I upload all my resources to them and people buy through the store. 

So they still go to my store but they pay, teachers pay teachers, who will turn around and pay me. And,I went Scott serious at three and a half years ago and I just said to my husband tonight, oh my gosh, I'm making six figures. What the heck.  

Sophia Noreen: That's amazing.  

Deborah Baldwin: It's unbelievable. And I sell them one at a time at about $10 as an average price. Some of them are much higher and some are much cheaper. But even me, when I understand that I am selling those one at a time, they buy them one at a time and I've made that kind of money. 

I can't even believe it. So the reason it works for me is the sky's the limit. I can go as big as I want to. That's why I've started the course with Amy Porterfield, it is because I have knowledge on that. I think a particular kind of theater that will boost student engagement if you'll just give it a try. That's what my course is about. And so I can go and go and go, and that's what I need. I need to be able to just keep growing because in the teaching job for me, I could master it pretty fast. I could figure out, oh, this is working, no, that doesn't. Well, then I'm bored. Anybody because my generation doesn't do that because I'm 65, and we didn't complain. And I don't mean that anybody behind me that complains is bang on. I don't. It's the thing you and I talked about. It's perception. It is reality and it's what we live in. So that's when I started the business was about three and a half years ago and I still can't believe it. 

Sophia Noreen: It's amazing. Because you made a comment that this is much easier than what you were doing as a teacher. We're not saying to anybody that, yes, quit your day job and just jump into this. Because a few other themes came out and you were hedging your bets quite a bit of your entire life. You were trying things out, you're trying something else, but there was something inside of you, you're like, wait, I'm not there yet. And you kept going for more going and I sometimes think that, that's your inner wisdom coming out, saying, there's something else I'm supposed to be doing and I'm not there yet. And it's also your energy level, of course. It was able to handle more. It's fascinating.  

Deborah Baldwin: I am driven. I am passionate. But I don't eat, sleep and breathe it. Now, of course, when I started, I did it because I made myself a goal that would make a hundred products, create a hundred products a year. Well, I hit that. I hit that at 10 months. So then we'll just go that route again. So now, I have 340 different products about theaters. I have units on Broadway musicals, units on costume design and set design and producing. And I have played, I have reader's theater, I have radio theater, I have all kinds primarily for middle school and high school, but there is some from elementary and I am growing that way if there's just a lot. I have a virtual assistant who was a student of mine and she knows me really well. She's 23 and she's eating and sleeping this and by the way. She lives in Ireland. So that's cool. I love that. They send it all the way over to, I mean, in my mind, it's clean going across the ocean. 

 So she works with it as well. It's just wonderful. And I'm so glad I meet nice people like you, I've met so many nice women entrepreneurs. I've met some men too. But you know, I'm kind of partial to women. So I want to talk about it. And it's a great thing but it's not for everybody. 

 And it's not something that happens overnight. I would say to anybody watching me goes, well, gosh, look what you did. But you have to understand. I learned for 38 years before I finally did it. So it's not like I just stepped out of the classroom and some people can. I know some really gifted young teachers whose stuff is fabulous because I work with them, I talked to them and we network together. But most people, you've got to have a body of work of experience in something before you can hand it out to other people.  

Sophia Noreen: I love that. I think you've nailed it there. It's the whole iceberg picture you see. We just see the tip of the iceberg, we're like, wow, look what they did. And they think that's all the work that they've done is what you see. But there's such a big part of that iceberg. Ninety percent of it is underwater and is hidden. And you're 38 years of experience is hidden underneath. And you say it so gracefully like I made a hundred products in 10 months, 200 or 300, 300 products now over the last three years. 

But that knowledge set came to you over the last 38 years and you had an already formulated either digitally or not, or in your head. And you had a virtual assistant. .You're making them fresh that now. But it was the experience you had and the confidence that you have built up over the years to just say, this is what people need. I'm getting it out there and I want to spread that love for theater because like you said, there's a lot of power for the teachers to come out and do what they do. Now, you're giving them that extra leverage and asset to be able to do it without feeling like they're alone. So you're doing a service for the teachers as well.  

Deborah Baldwin: That's what I appreciate and enjoy doing. But there's nothing that makes me happier than when I get receive a review that teacher said. I have a whole class of boys. I used to really theater script the monkeys and they loved it. They act so much that the principal came and watched it. And then the principal had us do an assembly for everybody else. I'm like, Glory be. Halleluiah. It is awesome. If you had asked me if that would ever happen, well, that's what I want. And a good friend of mine, I used to co-teach with, she said, well, Debbie, you just really are still teaching because you're just teaching a different way. I said, yes. But it's a whole lot easier if can do it with my pajamas if I want to.  

Sophia Noreen: And you're teaching the teacher, right? There's a phrase, teaching the teacher. I love it because when you teach the teacher. The teacher can then, you've multiplied your assets so many more times. So it's just such an inspirational story. Because I think many of us who are starting the entrepreneurial journey. They may be thinking to themselves, well, I don't have 38 years of experience yet. But if you think about Deb saying, it's like, no, you don't need to have 38 years of experience. How about having some experience, of course. But then if you think about who you're going to serve and be able to really nail down what your message is, what your lessons are. And in her case, of course, her product is a lesson. 

I know we speak to everyone between product-based to service-based. And then it could be a digital product as well. So, really aligning yourself up with what your mission is and what your goals are, and who you're serving, will help motivate you and hopefully give you a little bit more confidence. Because, again, not everyone's going to have that number of years. And it's not the number of years but just having a little bit of experience and I think hedging your bets. 

I think that's another lesson or hidden message in your story. I, of course, work another job for a reason at the moment because I do want to ensure that I have the cash flow, the confidence. And it gets really tricky and really scary when you're starting your business and that business or that client or that product or the sales that month have to pay for your living. I find it tricky. And I find it scary. 

Deborah Baldwin: That is why I didn't go on being a professional actor. It's not that I couldn't, I actually have a lot of talent in it, I'm a good singer and I can cast constantly and leads, but I looked at it and went, yeah, but I don't know how I'm going to get food on the table. And I see all these people lined up for this role that I'm not even sure I want to be in that show. And really I'm a leader type. I needed to go into directing. So what's it going into directing? That was the first step of, oh, I am so happy here, I love this part because now, the show's going to look the way I think it ought to look at least for me. And I agree with you. I don't think anybody has to have 38 years of experience. But I do think that you have to be authentic to yourself and you have to see what in you is unique from others because someone said it or I read it, or it was on a meme, or I don't know. But you want to find what is different about you. And you want to share that with the world in whatever you're doing. So why does this work for me, and why do I think people buy us a couple of reasons? Because I've been in the trenches and I could see what the problem was because when I started teaching theater, there were no materials. We didn't even have plays that were written for students yet. 

We had nothing. You'd have to make a play like our town and cut it and add rows to it, which is copyright infringement at the wazoo because we did not have a place or actually written for children yet. Even the whole push for children's books wasn't even a big thing because I thought about being a children's writer. If that didn't come along, I think until maybe the eighties or late seventies, people started writing a lot more books for kids. The same thing with all the musicals, if you've ever heard of all that junior musicals like Mermaid Jr or Music Man Jr. Those all came in the 90s. And so, we didn't have that either. So what I did is, I took my professional training and I took my educational training and I thought we need both. So what happens a lot with theater teachers if they don't have the right experience and if they try to approach everything as they would in college, but these are eight-year-olds. So an eight-year-old does not need to be doing scene study unless they're in a serious, serious program for film or something, then they're going to be sent off to do the film. 

I can't imagine anybody younger than 14 yrs old needs to learn scene study. They don't need to learn acting styles. There are certain things, young children should learn about theater and that's creative dramatics. They need them to disallow all the components of theater. And then we get older, we start to concentrate on this part, but that's Deb figuring this out on her own. And then they ought to do this part. They ought to do the more difficult things in high school. But be careful. You don't want to take away from the college people either. If you teach them too much, too high in high school, they're going to get to college. And it's not going to be as good as it should be. 

I don't know how else to explain it. Maybe you had a fabulous theater teacher and that's wonderful, but mostly I'm concerned with making theater user-friendly to every classroom and maintaining the integrity of the art form. So if I can get both together, so I don't write Giphy little plays, I take multicultural folk tales and I develop them into place. They're short. They're like 15 minutes in length. My husband was an instrumental music teacher. He writes the music for it. There might be one or two songs in it, but it's not a musical. It's like a very small play with a piece of music. For instance, there's one called Licci the serpent's layer, which is based on a Chinese folk tale. The script is about Licci. She's a little bit like Milan. So she leaves and she's gonna go off and fight. In her case, she's going to go fight this awful serpent. The serpent comes down ella mountains like takes a young girl up in the mountains and that's what he does every couple of years. So Licci sneaks out of the house and she takes her father's place. 

Well, Tim wrote a piece of music for that. So that's what she does put it together. See, that's not dippy,. The zombies go to Paris. I like to do good stuff, folktales, and whatnot. And I have some original things in my store too. But I just really want kids to understand the value or everybody understand the value of theater and how it can enrich your life, whether you're there as an audience member or you're on stage, or you're backstage, any of those. And keep supporting it because it's vital.  

Sophia Noreen: Yes, an art form. And so that drive that keeps you going. Did you notice that it was always there? Did it come about from the passion that you had for theater? I guess I'm trying to pitch this for moving into an entrepreneurial space or something that you had never thought of doing before. Because I'm not sure if a decade ago you would say to yourself, I'm going to move into becoming a business owner and work for myself, and make six figures passively because I've just put it online and there it goes. So definitely an out-of-the-box thought and you must have done it for serving the passion of theater.  

Deborah Baldwin: You're right. We'll be free. When I started, I was scared to death. But Anthony Perkins before was an alcoholic. He was a fabulous actor. And one day, he said I was in California, when I woke up the next day I was in Las Vegas and I didn't know how I got there. And he said I realized I had a problem. So I decided to begin to act like a sober person act. Okay, so I started to take on the persona of a sober person. And if you think of it, if you'll do the same thing as an entrepreneur and say, I'm just going to be competent. Even if you're just faking it, it is okay. And you just learn and get home and fall apart. But then fall apart when the head's off. I have had total moments of doubt. When I started out, my skin was pretty thin. But I'd written a middle-grade book too. So my skin go out thicker when I dealt with reviews on the book. And that taught me a lot there too. But now, at the age of 65, I'm asked to talk to women over the age of 50 about starting a business. And basically, say to them, you guys, it is not too late. And you are super valuable because we have knowledge from life and from careers that's that needs to be passed on to other people, and it's welcomed. That's the other thing. People don't know it is welcomed. And I can't say enough about this part of it because I forget I'm 65 yrs old. My husband has started a business as well, and he has a teachers pay teachers business too because he's a musician. And he can see the value in sharing his knowledge with others. For me, I just had to develop a thicker skin and just keep pretending I knew what I was doing until like I did or the technical parts, you learn over time. And I said to myself, listen to them. The average eighth-grade reader has to be able to use any computer, so you can learn to do this too. You have a master's degree, for God's sake. So we'll figure it out. And sometimes when I can't get it to happen, I'm about to throw the iPad laptop across the room. And my husband will save me and figure out what's wrong. But I learned daily just daily, and I'm not a tech person. I get really tired of it and I'm so glad that this person just loves it. 

I like the creative part. I like putting my products together. I like creating the covers. I like that's the part I love to do. I also write teachers' scripts so that even Sophia would go in tomorrow, read my script and she would know what to say to the things because I'm going to start you off. And that is really important because nobody told me what to say when I was teaching. How do you do that? I just guessed and came from a family of teachers. So maybe it was in my blood. I don't know. But now, I write little short scripts that are part of the unit. When you buy it, the teacher can hand it to a substitute. But it doesn't sound like, what is Musical? It isn't that. What do you know about the Oklahoma Rush or The Land Rush in 1889? Well, that's leads into Oklahoma, Musical Oklahoma. That's the kind of stuff I'm asking on these teacher scripts so it's more interesting. I am intrinsically motivated and always have been it. But I just think that women who are over 50 yrs old, don't sell themselves short. 

You don't have to be retired. Whatever you think retired is, it's not retired. You get to be whatever you want to be when you stopped doing that first career. And that's so important. That has very little to do with what we're talking about. But women need to understand that once you're working and maybe being a mother and being a wife possibly that you still have things to offer people, and they still want them. They still want them, whether you know how to knit well, or you are an artist, or you are a bookkeeper, or whatever it is, it's still valuable. And I don't like people to sell themselves short.  

Sophia Noreen: And you've said so many valuable things. And the next part was advice time. And I think you've started hitting those topics. I want to play off some of the things you had just said, one of them was, you were almost faking it until you made it, like you were like, I don't know what an entrepreneur looks like, but I've done harder things in the past, and I'm just going to act and think like an entrepreneur and just do what I need to do. 

So, one of those things could have been taking action, taking massive action, and just pushing go and being motivated to move forward on a topic or an action. Even if something was becoming more difficult like the tech. The tech becoming difficult. Another thing you said that I loved was when it's too difficult or you're getting stuck, you were asking for help. And I think sometimes we just don't ask for enough help. Especially as women, I think we get scared. We don't have the confidence sometimes and we'd rather not be embarrassed or shy. And so we shy away from asking for help. And I think that's massive.  

Deborah Baldwin: Agree. I have great avenues to get help. There's also something called Google. And if I can do something on this particular site, I just put the question in it. Even if I go to some particular site and I cannot find the answer in the FAQ anywhere. I'm like, screw it. So I just go back to Google, put in the same question and it'll take me to that page and I'll read it. And then it'll translate it into Deb's way of looking at it. And then I'll go back and go, okay, I get it now. Because right now, I never knew, Sophia, about Sam's Cart and order forms, or how to set up the course. I have to figure it out. I have a course platform now and I had to tell how to have an email list and directs and funnels. Either a year ago, I did not know those things. But godly, you can learn them. Anybody can learn them.  

Sophia Noreen: A hundred percent.  

Deborah Baldwin: And it's fun to learn them. My husband would say sometimes, he told my daughters, sometimes mom talks. I have no idea what she's talking about. I've got my hand in so many pots with this. Yes, and I'm like, well, how come you can't keep up?  

Sophia Noreen: Well, honey, you have to figure out the TikTok and all the marketing lingo if you're going to be able to hold a business. Let me show you how like a little marketing guru/ tech personnel, or letting him know what it means anyway. Because it's a different nomenclature almost like you said like, knowing what a drip funnel is and knowing the tech like SamCart. And who knows, in the next decade, they may change as well because technology keeps growing and changing. 

But it's amazing. Because again, I really do think delegation having the confidence to delegate, having the confidence to act, and then, of course, not selling yourself short. If you have a skill or a passion, it doesn't matter what your age is. It doesn't matter where you were born, and it doesn't matter what social class you were brought up in, you have whatever it takes to get it done. I always say that if you have that inner voice or wisdom telling you to do something and you have the vision, that means you already have all the resources available to get it done. You just need to figure it out. You just need to put the puzzle pieces together and conjure up your plan and then give it a shot, and see where it takes you. 

You can do online business now. I don't have a store, brick and mortar store. My overhead is very low. It's unbelievable. My brother has a large business. And my oldest brother did too. And he heard how much money I made and he was really surprised. He said, well, I'm not surprised because I know you could do this. And I'm so glad we found it. But I also think he was surprised at how much I have made that it would be a lot harder for him to make that money when in year three than it has been for me. And that's because everything's online. Technology has changed this planet. For example, me and you, having this conversation over zoom. We'll be able to see each other records of the entire podcast for people to listen to. And then it being able to be transmitted across the globe. Who would have thought?  

Okay, well, I have a few more questions. A bit more tangible questions. But we can go into story mode if you think it's reasonable. I want to ask you, how do you keep yourself moving, managing goals and your time management? 

Deborah Baldwin: Well, I am not. Although I'm goal-oriented, these are soft goals. I know the whole value of writing them down and visualizing them. I've learned that years ago and it does work. But I just want to keep moving forward and that I don't say, I'm going to make $200,000 by such and such year because it makes me mad if I don't get there. So I look at where I've come from and I look where I'm going and I say, this is good because you can't control it and sales. I can't control whether 10 people will buy tonight or you have two people who will buy on March 1st. I can't control it. All I can do is show up and do my part. And so, that's what I do there is I have socked. My goal was to, I stayed home for 11 years when our girls were young, and so I lost half of my pension. And at the time I said, we'll be fine. I'm not going to worry about it. Well, we were fine when we retired. But I said I could be finer. So that's why I started the business. I liked it. It has provided opportunities for us that wouldn't have been there. So if nothing else, my goal is to continually provide money. So someday I can take the whole family to Disney World or wherever. But I have many ideas up here. And my virtual system, if I have time, we put them on paper and we just keep moving forward. So that's how I handled goals. So because I took piano when I was younger, I don't have to do tiger time and I told my husband, I said, well, sometimes I could do each other time, but Tim knows. He goes and works in the office. 

I work here near the kitchen on this big table. And I like to work from 9:30 AM to about 1:30 PM and then have lunch. And then I like to rest. And then I might kick back into it for a little while at around 4 PM to 6 PM. Maybe I'm pinning, maybe I'm talking online, maybe I'm checking Instagram and talking there. I'm constant. I'm doing a lot. But my time management is like that on the weekends. I don't work very much. I used to, and it used to be in my head constantly. But I'm far enough into this now that I can pick it up and put it down, pick it up and put it down. Not the coursework. The course creation discussed that with me until yesterday when I finally got my slide deck done and you understand that our slide deck is pretty much done. 

Sophia Noreen: That's a huge project that slide deck.  

Deborah Baldwin: Right. And I know the teaching part would be very easy for me because then I started to make the outline for the slide deck and I'm like, oh, this is easy. I have 10 modules, I had eight done in two hours. It's not a problem for me. I think I'm old enough now that I just enjoy it. I don't know. I just enjoy it. I'm so glad people like it. So it's very easy to step up and do it again. If I had one child, I never could have done this. I never could have created products when I was teaching and directing. Not at all, not when our daughters were young couldn't have done it in it either. I wouldn't have even considered it. I said, oh, that's a great idea but no. 

Sophia Noreen: And it's interesting because I think a lot of the listeners will be in that boat where they're trying to do 10 things at the same time. Have a family, maybe working a couple of part-time jobs or a part-time job, managing the household perhaps, and I don't want to say to them not to do it. But I think what you're trying to say is really be mindful of your energy because you have the boundaries or you say, no, can't manage to do all of this plus taking care of the girls. And it sounds like you have two young girls, and I have two girls too, so I know what that's like. It is challenging. And I think though, the way you describe it, you have your ideal time to do your work. So 9:30 to 1:30, you know yourself, and then you kick it back on, you take a rest, you take a break. And those are valuable things. So even if you are juggling a lot of things, just even blocking off a little time and doing a little bit perhaps if your energy allows for it. 

Deborah Baldwin: I would say that because I'm a mother of two grown daughters. Those kids you always hear, oh, they grow up so fast. Well, it's really true. And when they go off to college, they're done with you. They may love you and come back and I'm very close to my daughter who lives here. And I used to be close to my daughter who lives here too, but she moved to Maine. And so I don't get to see her as much. But once they're adults, it's a whole different world and you never get the kind of time. You don't sit down and read a book to your granddaughter. I don't sit down and read a book to my 38-year-old daughter. But I will sit down and read a book to my granddaughter.  

When my girls were young, I read to them all the time. There's a different kind of closeness and so I would say, just know that you have a long life. Yes, we hope. And when you're supposed to do these things, it will open up to you until then you may do a little bit of it. But it won't really open up to you until it's really supposed to. 

Sophia Noreen: I love that.  

Deborah Baldwin: And that may sound like mumbo-jumbo. I don't know.  

Sophia Noreen: No, that was so well said.  

Deborah Baldwin: It's really true. And there is a force that will try to distract you. So recently, a friend of mine as a playwright and I said, would this particular company look at unsolicited submissions? He said, no. But Deb, they would if that from one of their playwrights gave it to him. This was in the middle of making the slide deck. I was so tempted to send my friend a couple of scripts to be sent to them. And then I went, no, not right now. If I'm supposed to, I will do it. And it will come back to my brain and I will do it. It's not written down. Oh, we will send scripts to Rus. It's not that I haven't heard anywhere. And that's what I mean by trusting your gut and just be with where you are because those children grow up so fast and they need you, and they need their moms and dads. And you want to be present with them. You don't want to be so scattered. And they can feel it, they can tell. 

Sophia Noreen: They can feel it. Yes, and I've said this to a few girlfriends of mine too that they've taken on the world. They're doing a job. They're volunteering at the church. And then they're also taking care of how many animals that they own in the house plus their kids. And then they're doing a side hustle. And I literally said this to my girlfriend, I said, there is a stage in life when you can do every one of these things, you don't have to do them all at once. And you need to decide or be the person that picks up the slack. 

Deborah Baldwin: Well, no one else will run the Christmas program. So I will do it. That's me. No one else will get the chili for the chili dinner for the school, I'll do it. I'll just do it. I guess that's your thing, but I can do it. Just because I direct and teach doesn't mean I can't get the Chile here for the school fundraiser, which you don't have to do that. 

 You don't have to do everything that's presented. You do not have to save the world. You do not need to. Go in and be in charge of Sunday school because nobody else shows up. Guess what? They'll find someone. You don't need to do that. And that's something nobody told me. And that work ethic in me made me go, well, I'll do it. I'll just do it. But my daughter and I've said many times, just because we can doesn't mean we should. And your friend is, I would say, it's fear-based and she doesn't know it's fear-based. I mean, I'm just guessing. But you know, we make a lot of decisions based on fear. But I don't do this. If I don't speak to that business owner right now, I'll never get another chance. I bet you will if you're supposed to. 

Sophia Noreen: And it might sound woo-woo, but I do believe there's a force and you're being brought together for a reason. And the opportunity will resurface again if it's meant to be at the right time. And it's all about the people pleasers and the fear of being rejected by society. I've talked about this many times, again, putting on the anthropological hat about how back when we were in tribes. If you were not part of the tribe and accepted, you were dead because you can't protect yourself. And not in the desert or in the forest by yourself. Just understanding that those fears are no longer real fears. If I say no to Deb, because you know, Deb, I don't want to make chili for your potluck. You're not going to exile me to the desert.  

Deborah Baldwin: But you can always tell the women that are resentful. They look haggard. That you can tell they haven't taken care of themselves one way or the other. You can see about them and they are very much the martyr and like, oh, I'm just so busy. You don't have to do this. Let's get real. And I think this happens a lot with women, they get lost especially after they have the kids, women are lost. They're just lost because they're so intent when they're babies. And then they get up to about 10 and then they get older and it's like this umbrella opens and the mom goes, who am I? What was I'm doing? Before they came up mom. They can't remember. That's when you do it. When you were to that point of now, what do I do? And that's when the world's your oyster again, but now you have all that life experience with it. So now, you're super valuable.  

Sophia Noreen: Exactly. Exactly. You have all of this extra energy and extra time. I don't know what it is, but before becoming a mom, so before having children, I didn't have much energy. I felt really drained just from my nine-to-five job. And then after having kids, I realized that I have a ton more energy because I don't know if it's like the sleepless nights had conditioned me to be able to handle more. Because now I wonder, I'm like, if I didn't have the kids and I just had my nine to five, I'd be bored. But back in the day, I just thought of myself being so tired. So anyway, that's on a side note, just your stamina, I think, increases.  

Deborah Baldwin: Yes, it does. And I think that so much of what we think, well, we know this. You limit yourself if you will mess up a little, and just don't do that. Don't do that. And the people whom they say are so young and live a long life, or the people who continue to learn, learning keeps you young. It keeps me curious. That's very important to people, especially for women, just keep being curious about things. And that's so important. And if I would say to that if they know they want to have some sort of business but they haven't really found it yet, then be curious. See what else is out there or see what you know how to do if you blew off. I just ran onto a store in the Florida area, I've never heard of it's called Chicken Salad Chick, and she was at home and she loved to make chicken salad. And this sounds so dopey when you first hear it. So then, she started making a chicken salad of all sorts and she gave them to her friends and then did this. Until I guess, her communities, food, police, whatever they're called, said to them, you can't do this. It's like, you can't sell baked goods out of your home. So then she got a store, and now she has a franchise. I'm telling you, that's one of the best ideas I've heard of lately. I don't know how long she's been around, but she has Chicken Salad Chick. I guess there are 12 of them in the south. Judge me for saying this- it is so clever and it's so different. There we go. Unique. She does get off of something she knew. And she has a family, but they're everybody's old enough. She's franchised and it's tremendous. And that's a woman who found something she knew how to do and expanded on the idea.  

Sophia Noreen: Yes. And you ran with it and she probably went through that phase as you said, I call it the discovery phase. When you know you have something in you, you want to do the business but you're not sure what to do yet, then you start hunting. I like this, I like that. I want to do business, and then you start to experiment and see what sticks. And so in this situation, Chicken Salad Chick was what she practiced with her family and friends until she must've gotten big enough for the food police to come and say, hey, no more selling out of your home. You need an actual license. Well, maybe even if she didn't know it, sometimes you need that extra kick to get started. So the legal police had to come and kick her and be like, get moving on your business.  

Deborah Baldwin: That's right. That was probably the case that you need a business license. That was extraordinary, and it's such a good example. And I think sometimes, people play it small. I'm just going to do this little, it's just a little thing I kind of do on the side. And it takes I think it could be more than that.  

Sophia Noreen: I'm probably guilty of that too, and I'll say it outright. I will say I have a little side hustle, but then of course it's people who are like, that's not a side hustle if it's in a big retailer. So I have to be careful with that. I'm owning it. I'm owning that. I'm owning it.  

Deborah Baldwin: Or they truly are just making beaded bracelets and selling them at the hospital. But they're also not fully being honest with themselves and saying, I bet I can be a lot more with this. I bet I can take it farther. My business coach said you ought to be into motivating women over 50, Deb. I swear this is what you should be doing. That's like educator and I direct, so I motivate people all the time but I don't even know why I'm doing it. I'm just saying, I think a lot of us are selling ourselves short and there are so many. And I think it's so cool to see somebody on my street trying something different or building something out in front of their house, or you see somebody all excited about what they've drawn and they didn't know they could draw. That kind of person that's like, I don't know if I can do this. I think that is the coolest thing. It's an example and I feel so bad for people who will be like the walking dead. They don't really know that the world is their oyster if they will just step out and themselves and it doesn't always have to do with money, it doesn't mean you have to have a lot of money or anything, you just need to see what's possible for you and keep learning. 

Sophia Noreen: Oh, I love it. Deb, you could go on for hours. I have one final question before I let you go. You brought this up and you touched on it and I didn't trap it when you were touching on it and I'll ask you again. Self-care. You brought up the lady who is the martyr and who looks haggard. How do we prevent that from happening? 

Deborah Baldwin: I'm a napper. My dad was a napper. My dad was a doctor like I said, and he stood all day and read films because he was a radiologist. And so he would come home, I kid you not, this was in the olden day's ladies. They eat lunch and he'd lay down and the house had to be silent from 1 to 1:30 PM. And we would tiptoe around. So I thought everyone was like that. So one time, my husband was taking a nap and said, oh, I woke him up and I said, I'm sorry. He goes, that's okay. But I am a napper and Tim knows this. It's also because of I had breast cancer last year and I'm just great and I'm completely well, and it's great, but it does drain you and the radiation drains you. And so, Tim will encourage me and he'll say, remember, you're going to go sit down for a while. My cat and I will rest some every day. I read in the afternoon. When I taught I would come home, I would completely change my clothes and I would rest. I get my feet up. Teachers are notoriously heavy. They get varicose veins when bad arches because they stand all day. And so, I would come home and put my feet up and just rest really from about four o'clock on. And if you have personal days in your work, you need to use them. If you were all teachers, I'd say every personal day they give you, you must use them. And if it means nothing else than you get up in the morning, turn on the television and sit on the sofa all day in your pajamas, that is fine. And you actually, I don't think it should be like once a week, I think it should be every day. I think also you need to come up with a bedtime pattern that you follow because women have such a hard time winding down. 

So I have a whole routine I do every night, and I follow it every night. And I'm normally trying to be asleep between 10:30 and 10:45 PM. But it's not like I'm sitting there with a clock. I just know, okay, I have to stop now. My husband knows, don't talk to me about money at 10 o'clock at night. I can't do it.  

Sophia Noreen: Are you the type that brings it up, like randomly? Do have that in you, that you just want to talk about your business all the time?  

Deborah Baldwin: No.  

Sophia Noreen: Okay.  

Deborah Baldwin: No, but if you have a bill, this is going to cost a lot and I'm like, it's 10 o'clock. I better not talk about our business or money problems right now because I'll worry about it all night. And I think you should get some exercise. It doesn't mean you need to do aerobics every day but walk. Does everybody good? My mother was a walker because she had a bad heart and we, my husband, and I walked together and that's a really good time for me to just let stuff hang up there in my brain and it'll clear out for me. It's amazing what the walk will do for me. So I do those kinds of things. I did too much when I was young, way too much. I was too busy trying to prove to myself that I was worthwhile, even though I was staying home with my children. And that was just a really dumb way to be, but that's who I was.  

But I also was a good mom. I'm sure I made mistakes like anybody, but, they feel, I think they think I was a good role model because I always continue to work and have something that was mine. So I was a mom as well as a teacher. But self-care for me is reading, resting, exercising, and, on a daily basis. I think that should do.  

Sophia Noreen: That's what it sounds like having these set pillars in your day and getting it done. That's what it sounds like, you really want to advocate. For those moms right now, a special shout out to you guys. I know it's difficult. But take Deb's advice if you can't do it all right now, then don't do it all right now. 

Deborah Baldwin: If you find yourself crazy, you just don't have to be that way. And you need to cut and cut until it feels manageable. And remember, everything is temporary. Whatever season you're in is temporary. You think it may go like this forever, but it won't. And it changes constantly. And I can say that at my age, everything changes, we survive pandemics, we live through this and that and life goes on and you will naturally just evolve with it. You just will, or you'll be left on the side. And I think probably the ladies that listened to you are women that want to make a better place for themselves. 

Sophia Noreen: Hundred percent. They're motivated, they want to move into new space and our biggest thing is enjoying that journey of becoming an entrepreneur because I do say it is a journey. There's no real finish line. Let's face it. Like once you cross one milestone, you want to go on to the next. And if you have any doubt of that in business, just look at Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos, they keep changing and they keep altering and they keep making their crazy businesses.  

And we may say, well, isn't enough. But no, business is an addiction. And I think once you get in there and you get bit by that entrepreneurial bug, you have to understand that it's a marathon, and having these really good self-care goals, daily rituals is what's going to let you continue going. This allows burnout, and you're going to throw it to the side and then be regretful later and we don't want that. 

 Deb, this was fantastic.  

Deborah Baldwin: Oh, I felt that way too, Sophia. 

Sophia Noreen: Thank you so much for coming to our show and I want everyone to follow you. So, tell us where we can find you. Or you can tell us your teacherspaysteachers.com and what's your store's name as well?  

Deborah Baldwin: I will. I will also say that. I would love to, when you get ready to put this out there, I'd love to share it with people. The name of my store is kind of weird but it makes sense for me. So it's called Dramamommaspeaks and that's one word. And so, Dramamommapeaks is the name of my store. That's my handle on Instagram. I'll be there under Deb Baldwin. I have metamorphosed into so many women here. I have a blog and it's called dramamommaspeaks.com, and it's all things arts-related. I have a website that's deborahbalwin.net. But I'm not on there very much, but you can talk to me there. I'm on Facebook, dramamommaspeaks and I'm also on Facebook by my whole name, which is Deborah Conard Baldwin. So you can find the other Debo and Deborah Ball or maybe Deborah Baldwin.  

Sophia Noreen: Many identities just like me. I don't know what my first name is half the day so... 

Deborah Baldwin: I have to judge who I'm talking to.  

Sophia Noreen: I'll tell you a side story right now, but before I do that, I'll take everything in the show notes so everyone can just click and head to wherever they want to follow you. And my side story is, my first name is Sophia. My middle name is Noreen. And so, I have half the world knows me as Sophia and the other half knows me as Noreen. That's why I introduced myself as both now because I had to keep thinking, who am I talking to? And how do I sign my name off? And I was laughing because at one point, one company that I was two different people. So if you didn't know, now you know guys. I have two identities just like Deb. Deb doesn't know her name either. It's okay. It's all part of the journey of life, I suppose.  

Deborah Baldwin: Oh yes, you bet.  

Sophia Noreen: Okay. Thank you again, Deb. And guys, remember, make a plan and take action. And yes, you can have it all. And we'll talk to you guys again next week. Same time, same place. Take care.
 
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