Episode 43 | Sophia Noreen's interview with Andrea from the Intentional Optimist

Sophia Noreen: Hey everyone. I hope you are having a fantastic day, and welcome to the Boss It Podcast. Today, you are in for a treat because we are going to be taking a segment from the Intentional Optimist Podcast where I was interviewed, and it was such a great interview with Andrea Johnson that I thought, why not share it with you guys as well?

All right, guys, let's get into it. 

Andrea Johnson: Where you are. I'm your host, Andrea Johnson, the original Intentional Optimist.

Imagine if you will, this scenario. You're preparing for your family's biggest religious holiday of the year, and you walk into Walmart just to grab a few little crafty items for the kids, but there's nothing anywhere. No coloring books, no foam sheet projects, the pre-cut kind that you just pop out and glue together. No silly wooden door hangers to paint or color, nothing. Not because the shelves are cleaned out, but because there are no products to put on the shelves. That's a little tough for us in Western society to imagine, isn't it?  I usually complain that the stores are prepping for the bigger holidays like Christmas or Easter or Thanksgiving  way too early.  Christmas in October, anyone?  Granted, some of this is due to the commercialization of religious holidays which is a whole other conversation.

But for those of us who celebrate those holidays, we're used to having an abundance of options. I even got to where I would purchase all of my stuff on clearance after the holiday for the next year. That's how much stuff is out there. Well, today's guest experienced the first scenario I shared, nothing on the shelves. No crafts or activities for her kids or her community, so she decided to do something about it. Welcome to episode 40.  Meet my amazing friend, Sophia Noreen Syed. 

Noreen, welcome to the show. 

Sophia Noreen: Hello. Thank you for having me. 

Andrea Johnson: I'm excited that you're here. Just so that everybody knows,  we've been chatting for 20 minutes or so  already and I said we really should hit record. I think this is going to be a great conversation.  I think we really connect well and we have so much in common,  which I have to make sure I don't geek out on the let's be friends part and let's actually get your story.  So why don't we go straight to that and give us your background, tell us who you are, where you're from, what makes you unique and what you're doing right now? 

Sophia Noreen: Oh my goodness, Andrea. There's so much to tell you. Because this is all about leadership, I feel like I should go back because upon reflection, I realized that I've been doing the leadership and I'm doing air quotes with my fingers  for a very long time, because I guess being the eldest, first born and just having the natural tendency to take risk,  I have always charted my own path. What me and Andrea were just chatting about how I grew up in a small rural town. I am South Asian by descent and I live in Canada, and growing up in the rural of Canada, we don't have much diversity. I was literally the only one that was South Asian in my school besides my sister.

I think it started all the way back at that point when I was in grade one, two and onwards so leadership for me really became something that just was ingrained in me, and didn't even realize that I was "a leader" because it just was just a very natural dependency.

It dawned on me later in life when I was working as a physiotherapist in one of the local hospitals here in the Toronto area in Canada, and the physician at that time, someone sponsors you to move or promote onwards to become a manager.  He basically said in my defense that I was younger than the average manager, and so the way he promoted me was saying, "She's a natural leader." 

I realized too that this being in high school, I ran for student council president. My leadership qualities I guess were formed at that time and I just continued with it.  I don't know what it is, Andrea. It's a very interesting quality when I realized that I was like, "Oh maybe I am a leader," but this whole concept of leadership was strange to me when being defined that you're a leader, I'm like, "What is a leader?" And then I started doing my own self discovery and listening to books and whatnot, because now I was taking that formal leadership role. A formal leadership role in a job, versus just playing as a leader, as a peer.

I was a peer leader with my clinical groups, physiotherapists, never afraid to really speak up. But then upon reflecting, going deeper, I realized I was holding myself back and it was my director at that time when I worked that manager job at the hospital, she said, "Why are you holding yourself back? You need to own it." I realized there was something there, and I wasn't using my voice when I felt that something was wrong. I sometimes hold myself back and not speak up. So  it's interesting because even though I've been on this trajectory of being a leader in whatever positioning I'm taking on, either being a peer leader with my students when I was in high school or, peer leader amongst my physiotherapy group, then picking the more formal leadership role.

I'm still, I guess, "acting as a leader". I say air quotes all the time.  Starting  my product-based business, Also Sophia and also working as a clinic manager part-time, I still take on those formal roles as a leader, but at the same time it's obscure to me. I don't know why. I don't know why. Maybe I feel that everyone is a leader within and they just need to be pulled out, and maybe that's why the whole definition of leadership is obscure to me. So, that's in a nutshell of who I am, and I guess I wear many hats.

Andrea Johnson: Yes, you do and so I want to go back a little bit   Most of my audience, I think, is in the US.  I like to think of myself as global and the people listening globally, but most of us are in the US. I don't know that we have physiotherapists. What is a physiotherapists?

Sophia Noreen: It's a physical therapist.  You guys call it a physical therapist, we call it a physiotherapist. It's exactly the same thing. 

Andrea Johnson: Okay. Why did you go into that field?

Sophia Noreen:  I love movement. I love the human body. I love science. I also love teaching and motivating individuals. When I was living with my grandmother, she was diagnosed with Parkinson's by a physiotherapist. It wasn't physicians. It wasn't anybody else in the healthcare field. It was the physiotherapist, because the physiotherapist is the one who took the time to do  the assessment, they came to the house, they were very thoughtful in their approach to the whole diagnosis or even just the concept of Parkinson's by explaining what it was, whereas the other clinical professionals were a bit more rushed.

I grew up with, my father was a physician, so I obviously knew of the healthcare field and it was a natural fit for me. I think naturally I'm always going to be a clinician, so even though I've taken on these other roles, I will come back to the patients and try to really understand where they're coming from and taking on those clinical attributes. If you can recall a physical therapist, they do their hands-on assessments and then they spend time with you. I'm not sure how different it is in the US in regards to how they approach their patients.

But imagine it's the same thing.  The only difference in the United States and in Canada, physical therapist and the United States can do more wound care. That's the only thing I can remember, versus in Canada, we don't do wound care. We let our occupational therapy colleagues handle wound care. So that's the only difference, but pretty much the same thing. 

Andrea Johnson: But this is what I heard is that you like teaching  and motivating, and I wrote down teaching, motivating and helping, is that what it was?  Well, because what I hear there is this is your drive. Your drive is that you like to teach and motivate and, in a minute we're going to get into what you're doing now and the things that you're doing. That's definitely the theme that we can see in all of your leadership even when you talk about managing people, you're motivating them, you're teaching them different things.

When you go all the way back to school,  a lot of times that's what you're doing there is you're motivating other students.  I just find that really interesting that this was the person that made an impression upon you, and this is how you wanted to give back and serve, and that you saw it as a teaching and motivating.

Sophia Noreen: Yes. For me, if we go through the fix needs, I'm not sure if the listeners want to hear all about that, but the contribution for me is very high. 

Andrea Johnson: That's the Maslow's needs. You're talking about?

Sophia Noreen: Yes. Some thing similar to that. So, connection and contribution is to the needs. Taking risks, so variety and insecurity is another two, and then love. Again, contribution, I think ranks  high for me and connecting with individuals so yes, oh significance. There we go.  

Andrea Johnson: They're out there and people can look them up and look at them, but their motivating factors.  They really are things that when you crave them, you need to find something that can let you do them or manifest those things in your life, or you're going to be really unsatisfied all the time.

Sophia Noreen: Right, exactly. Exactly, you don't feel balanced or in harmony with yourself if your needs are not being met. Everybody has a different benchmark for where the needs are. So for me, I like variety and hence probably the reason why I've done so many different things, versus some people they would rather have the security and variety for them is not as high of a need, so they'll stay in their same job or they'd like the paychecks coming in quite regularly, and they don't start their own ventures necessarily. There's nothing wrong with that. It's just a matter of knowing who you are and what you can handle, I suppose. 

Andrea Johnson: I just write down for myself, variety with two big underlines. It's like the paychecks are nice, but I need the variety, it's killing me. And so this is where you get into some real incongruence when you have somebody like me from my background, and from I come out of the generation where you're supposed to get in a job and stay there. That is the pinnacle of a good employee. It's the pinnacle of being stable. It's the pinnacle of being an adult. It's like if you're an adult, you're reliable. So being able to say, "No, no, no, no, no, my needs are..." and I need to look this direction and do these things.  I understand that this doesn't jive with what everybody else says it's supposed to be.

Nowadays, when you talk about you managed millennials, they don't see those things. They don't come out of that, I'm a good bit older than you but they don't come out of the, "My parents were baby boomers and before them were the great depression people."

So I literally had this legacy of "No, no, you, don't even put things in the bank."  My grandparents had coffee cans of money under the bed. So it's very different when you can just say what they are and step into them, but let's talk about the two different things that you've done.  I think you shared, I usually ask people for their earliest leadership memory and I think you shared that, specifically with being promoted into a manager but even all the way back to being student council. I want to chat just really quick about that.  In a small rural Canadian town, you and your sister are the only minorities or different ethnicity and yet you're the student council president. 

Sophia Noreen: I know. I don't know what promoted myself to want to do that. Because you  would think, "Oh, why would you want to do that?" And I ran against people. It wasn't like it was a pretty tight race.  I would just think about it, and I'm like, "What compelled me to do that?" You're in high school, you should be doing other things in high school.  Being a minority, why would I put that spotlight even more on myself, but for some reason something inside of me just wanted to do it.

It's very interesting, and I can't actually think about,  I don't know why Andrea.  I actually don't know why. Regardless, it was a good experience. The only setback for me, I would say personally was that back at that time, it was 2002. Somewhere along,  I can't even remember when I graduated high school, how sad is that?  So long story short, I was trying to get out of high school in four years. 

Andrea Johnson: What is high school normally? 

Sophia Noreen: At the time it was grade 9 to 13 in Ontario. We're the only province that had grade 13, and the provinces say, "Why do we have grade 13? We're spending more money for no reason, so let's get rid of grade 13."  So they got rid of grade 13, I was a very last grade 13 cohort. Now I'm battling with whole other grade  below me to get into every single school after that.  My plan was to leave high school early to avoid all that competition moving forward. And because I did the student council president thing, I didn't want to fast-track anymore. That's what we call it over here in Ontario, when you're leaving the school earlier than your cohort; fast-tracking.  It was a good thing for the leadership experience and for personal growth, but bad for the rest of it. I didn't leave high school when I was intending on leaving it. Although, I did accidentally graduate, we won't get into that story.  I mean, as a leader, I know a few things about myself and that I'm not as organized as I should be. And if I had been all of those things may have not had occurred. As a leader, you should know your strengths and weaknesses.  I learned it back then, and now I really try to surround myself with people who keep me organized, or tools or systems that can keep me organized. 

 Andrea Johnson: Smart. Well, and I would say the reason why you ran was because you're really like your boss said, you really are a natural born leader.  There are certain people that really are.  I was always told you're supposed to, "You have to follow before you can lead." I'm like, "No."   

Sophia Noreen: Well this is like, don't want to follow people that I may or may not agree with, or if I feel like they're not able to do the job, it's a personal share, but one of the people that ran against me for student council is my best friend, and we're still best friends to this day. It was fine.

One of the reasons I didn't ran with her, as vice president and president, was because I just felt like you have to be able to work in tandem together. Although she's my best friend, we don't work in tandem well together. I hustle a little bit more and she knows that, and she's like, "I don't want to hustle."

So I can't lead or I can't follow a leader if they're not matching. Like you said, you have to be congruent  and you have to know that about yourself, and you have to surround yourself with people who are going to be able to go with along with that congruency, I supposed.

Andrea Johnson: Yes, and those are all really good insights for somebody who thinks they don't know what leadership is. I'm just going to say it. 

Sophia Noreen: Funny, right? The definition of leadership is just so interesting.

Andrea Johnson: There's 35,000 of them out there.  It's okay. So here's what I'd like to do too, is talk about when we talked about variety and all your different careers.  I know you left your physiotherapy job and it was a good one, and you decided to do something else. Tell us just briefly a little bit of that drawn and where you are now and what you're doing. 

Sophia Noreen: Sure. So in Canada, we have a very good pension associated with most of the healthcare sector. It's a full pension and full benefits. What that means is that when you retire, you'll be getting your full salary. So 55, I retire, they get my whole salary for the rest of my life. I know Andrea's face right now is... good, right? 

Andrea Johnson: Is that why your taxes are so high?  I'm going to stop there. Just let you see my face of like, wow. But that is a motivator for people to stay in a job. That is a motivator for people to get into healthcare positions.

Sophia Noreen: I call it the golden handcuffs, because working in healthcare setting is not as easy as it may appear. There's a lot of other nuances that I know now after removing myself from that setting, that I was like, "Wow, I can't believe I put up with all that stuff for so long,"  but it was because of pension was so good.  The benefits are so good.  Even when I went on Maternity leave, I had a hundred percent top up for the first six months, and those are things you don't get. You don't even get Maternity leave in the USA. You guys are six weeks? 

 Andrea Johnson: Well, maternity leave is different for different states and for companies.  So it depends on where you are, but we can take 12 weeks off without pay, and still have our job.

Sophia Noreen: Yes, well this is still great. It's still great. But see, this is it. 

Andrea Johnson: They're not great!

Sophia Noreen: No, I guess it's not great because they mean you're having to choose between caring for a baby, your family and your career, or money. That's the nuances between Canada and the US. I think we're going into the whole concept of capitalism and socialists. Right now guys, I pay so much taxes. I sometimes wonder I'm like, "Am I in the right country?" Because I left that job. I left a healthcare job. The pension ironically is still there, it's fine. But the point is, that was a transition I decided to take.

And the reason I took it was for two reasons, one- the job and the healthcare sector, even as a manager, wasn't offering me the flexibility I needed as a mother and as a wife and whatnot, because my husband was still the breadwinner and his job was being compromised by trying to manage the girls at home. I was leaving quite early in the morning and then picking them up after school, so we were on those shifts.  That was one of the reasons. The second reason was that I was like, "If I'm not enjoying this job, if I don't feel like I have support from my leadership, then I don't want to be getting a nanny again to help with the house, because I can just do that job, step into that role, and as a physical therapist/ as a physiotherapist, there is job security. 

I can go to the next hospital. I can go the next clinic and pickup a job, and I really had to understand that it's just a job in the end. I know it's really difficult for people to say, "Oh my gosh, you're leaving that job. You'll never get that job again." I got such a backlash from my family when I left. My dad actually thought I was leaving physical therapy. I was like, "No, I still pay my college dues. I'm still a professional. I still have my license." The job means nothing in that. They can replace me very easily, and I can replace it very easily.

Now, the irony of the situation and this is where it gets funny, and I think for anybody that's in that even of their life where they're going through a transition, I left that job but at the same time another job presented itself very closely after. I didn't even leave the job. I just told another clinic I'm leaving. Don't worry, I'm going to make sure that you're associated with the next manager, and that clinic then offered me a job. And I said, "I don't wanna work full time." So they gave me a part-time clinical manager position, and I said that I want to have flexibility for my kids, and they gave me that too.  The interesting thing is I left. 

Andrea Johnson: Imgaine that. You said what you needed, and there it was. 

Sophia Noreen: So the product-based business, Also Sophia, was cooking in the background at the same time so another motivator to leave that job was because I said, "You only get one chance to do some of these creative activities. I'm blessed that the fact that I can likely find another job later anyways, so I'm going to take this time off and put more attention into the product-based business." And that's still growing and doing quite well. We launched in Walmart for the second time this year. Mind you, it was in the lockdown. 

Andrea Johnson: So tell us what is Also Sophia, because your name is Noreen, but it is also Sophia.

Sophia Noreen: I know. Just to mess everyone up, Andrea.

Andrea Johnson: So really quick, give us a synopsis. Why did you start the business and what do you do with it? 

 Sophia Noreen: I started the business because I'm of Muslim faith, and I could not find any products for kids during our seasonal holidays, Eid and Ramadan. The products I was finding were very expensive and poor quality, so  being an actual creative, I went ahead and I started making my own products. I got them mass- produced in Asia, so they were reasonably priced and my target audience was somebody that needed to shop at Walmart, or was a Walmart shopper in Canada.  I know that the two countries have a little bit of a different shopper that goes to the Walmart because we don't have a Target in between, so we have our Target and our Walmart shoppers all at Walmart. We tried the Target thing in Canada and it failed miserably. But anyways, that's another story for another day.  So that is Also Sophia right now, Also Sophia is a product-based business that serves under represented ethnic groups in retail. We sell directly to the business, but we also sell directly to consumers through our websites. We started off with Ramadan and Eid. We are going to launch a Diwali line because one of our team members is Hindu faith and the likely we'll do Chinese New Year, Lunar New Year right after that because one of our other team members is Chinese. 

It's a very ethnic focused product-based business, and the motivator really was something that I needed. I wanted to bring it to  life. The vision was to get it into the Walmart shelf and it happened within about 12 months, so I was like, "Okay, well that's done now." So variety man, I tell you Andrea, I have lots of variety. The last thing was I realized that people kept asking me for help with business and they kept asking, "Oh, how did you do this? And how did you do that? And how did you do?"  I said, okay, my thing is if I give you advice or I give you any type of lessons or whatnot that I learned, I want to make sure you take action.

The next thing we started after that was Boss It Club, which is the educational component. So that is intro, that's my full list of things for you. 

Andrea Johnson: This is great, and so what I want to do really quick is talk about your product business because they're very different things. When I coach with people and they're not sure they want to leave their job, or they know they need something different,  we talk about the difference between a product- based business and a service-based business.  Most people are one or the other. I know that I tried to be an entrepreneur for 25 years and it started with products. It started with multi-level marketing type products. I was an Amway distributor and I sold Mary Kay, but when it came down to it, I am not a product-based entrepreneur.  I am just not. I even saw a thing for our local group here in the Charlottesville area, there's a lady who sells beautiful pottery and she wants to keep making the pottery but she is done selling it. So she's looking for somebody to handle that for her, and I'm thinking, "Oh, I totally get it."

She's the creator, and she is just not the entrepreneur that wants to do that piece.  So I find it fascinating, number one, that you just so easily created your own product-based business and turned around and  added onto it a service-based business, because not many people can do both.  So for many of my listeners,  they may not know what all these different holidays are but you showed me your website and we will definitely put that in the podcast's show notes so that people can see, if you're okay with that, see what kind of products you have. But when I walk into Walmart during November, actually probably starting in September depending on who puts their Christmas tree up first,  I'm going to find every single imaginable piece of Christmas decoration that I could find.

When I walk into Michaels which is like an AC Moore, Michaels is like a craft store, don't know if you guys have them up there.

 Sophia Noreen: We have a Michaels. 

Andrea Johnson: Okay, so when I walk into Michaels around here, I get Easter theme. If I want to make my own crafts, it's all Easter related and then it's all Christmas related, it's all these holidays that the majority of us, the majority of people around here celebrate. So you saw a need and met it in yourself,  were talking those kinds of products?

Sophia Noreen: Yes.  What I needed as a mother, and I do view myself as a target audience so it's easy for me to create the product. I really needed products for kids during the holidays, Eid and Ramadan, because that's what I wanted to highlight. Just like you or Walmart's  or Michaels', all the big retailers, Christmas is a thing. Halloween is a thing. Easter is a thing, and Valentine's day is a thing. Not that I shy away from my kids from celebrating, not at all, but my husband's family is quite conservative they were the mindset that if you're going to celebrate Christmas, if we're going to do a Christmas tree, we need to also celebrate Eid and Ramadan to the same effect.

So I'm like, "Okay, well, that's fine. I don't mind doing that, but how am I going to do that if there's nothing out there." As much as I'm a DIY-er by nature, but I don't get the time, as a manager at that time, to do all the DIY's and then it doesn't even look that great because really, I don't have time to make it look perfect.

Andrea Johnson: Some of us have the vision, we just don't have the skill. 

Sophia Noreen: Yes, exactly. Seriously, and I was like, "Okay, this got to change," because I can buy expensive balloons. It was literally 10 latex balloons on Amazon back in 2017 for $30 in Canada.

 Andrea Johnson: For 10 latex balloons, or 10 latex balloons that had something on them?

Sophia Noreen: Well, they said "Eid Mubarak." 

Andrea Johnson: That's all?

Sophia Noreen:  That was in 2017. Now it's a different story, so that's four years ago. My girlfriend at that time that was working with me as my colleague, she goes I was going to buy it because it's so emotional like, "Oh my gosh, I want to do this for my kids." and she goes, "Are you kidding me?" She's like, "Do not buy those balloons. Go and make something." and that was it.

 Andrea Johnson: That was all it took.

Sophia Noreen:  She was also complaining. She's like getting the Etsy printables and trying to make me have money envelopes as well as part of the product line.  We do  a lot of party products for Walmart. We do some DIY crafting items, so the kids can paint in different silhouettes.  We had different silhouettes cut out of a board,  it's really chipboard but it's easy enough for them to paint and then put up.  What I really wanted to achieve was an activity for the kids, put some home decor for the family so they can put it up and then we have more of a home decor line tools. We have like a reef that says Eid Mubarak and Ramadan Mubarak.

 Mubarak is like celebratory and it came in the door, and everybody has gone ahead and made it their own by putting their own flowers. 

Andrea Johnson: That's cool. 

Sophia Noreen: I love it, because we've literally taken  some bits of different aspects. It's very interesting because I actually did social anthropology in undergrad, so I know I love it because now I can go and feel how the cultures have influenced all the different other holidays, like Christmas and Easter, Halloween and Valentine's Day had actually influenced how Eid and Ramadan is emerging as a new tradition or new traditions, I should say, in north America and in Europe.

So we do have all of these individuals now have door signs that say something like a wreath and then we have a Ramadan basket. There's all these nice books and Easter basket and Eid tree so it's like a crescent moon either it looks like a pine tree needles or people now are doing hot moons, silhouettes that are like big.  I think it's a real transition for first or second generation Muslim faith individuals that are in North America and Europe. 

I just think the trend is trying to keep going so really, and truly Walmart and the big retailers need to carve out a section. They don't have a corporate strategy yet for these ethnic celebrations. They have it more with food, especially in the local areas that those minority groups. 

Andrea Johnson: Yes, based on the demographic of the area. Sure. 

Sophia Noreen: That's right.  It'll be interesting, Andrea, it'd be interesting. I think you're right, like I saw a need in the market and I just went for it, and it's working.

 Andrea Johnson: So tell me how different it is for you, that's the product- based business. It's very easy to do metrics on that. It's very easy to see what sells and what doesn't. It's very easy to see the quality of each product. It's very easy to see that they fly off the shelves or whatever. It's all very measurable. Tell me about launching a service-based business where you're teaching at the Boss It Club, where you're teaching other women to do the same thing, or just teaching them basic business skills. 

Sophia Noreen: It's a bit of both. It is just in its infancy. We just launched it about six months ago, and we launched it as a podcast, so just to disseminate information to anybody who would like to listen, just as you have. 

 Andrea Johnson: And we will share your podcast, and it's called Boss It, right? 

Sophia Noreen: Yeah. Boss It Podcast. 

Andrea Johnson: That's where we met incidentally, through podcasting course. Okay, so you have the podcast, which is the basic information delivery. And then? 

Sophia Noreen: And then we basically have one course at this point. A lot of individuals last year in our community were like, " How did you get so many influencers on Instagram to share the products?" They were like," We did an influencer marketing." We use influencer marketing to help our new product-based business really get the attention it needed,  and so  again, I thought about who I was as a customer. I am the customer for this brand and how am I going to benefit, why would I buy it from this business? 

Obviously through seeing my friends in the community have it, and these influencers, it's very interesting on Instagram because you see people spend so much time on there. They feel like they know the individuals. So if you see your friends, your Insta friends have the products, then you would want the products too, or you'll at least go check out the website and you'll tour it.

I can see the metrics on the website, like you said. So it was that course that started the education component of Boss It Club. It's again, because it's in its infancy, we're still developing a few new programs but many people are reaching out and asking how we got our products on a Walmart shelf and we also had it on the shelf at another retailer, it's called Indigo Books Chapters. It's like the big bookstore in Canada. 

Andrea Johnson: Like a Barnes and Noble? 

Sophia Noreen: Yes. Yes, it's exactly like that. Lifestyle bookstore had also put our products in their stores and allowed us to hold events. So now the community's asking, how did you do that? We want to do something similar, and so likely we'll do more of a mastermind and then a mentorship program coming about as well.

It'll be interesting to see, but again, because it's in its infancy and it's within the first six months, we don't have the metrics necessarily. 

Andrea Johnson: I get it. 

Sophia Noreen: Yes, I know right. We're in this together. 

Andrea Johnson: Cool. What we'll do is if somebody was interested in the Boss It Club, how do they join? Is it just a course, like they listen to the podcast and then they sign up for the course, or how does that work? 

Sophia Noreen: Best thing to do right now is join the mailing list, and then we will be opening up a free community on Facebook.  We'll have a challenge associated with that to help them really kickstart their business, because I find a lot of people think a lot about getting into business, but they don't go into action. They stock, or they don't know where to go and there's just so many things with business. It's really a big layered cake. So something for them to really have known would be a challenge just to really motivate them. I think we all need those deadlines anyways, that will be within the community. The community will be for free, and then if they need more support we will have a mentorship program. And then if they even need more support and they need more strategy,  I find that business owners in the first zero to five years is the most difficult time because you're creating your baby, you're creating your business, you are trying to get the traction, you're wearing a lot of hats and it can get very overwhelming very quickly. So that's the group, that's the cohort we want to support, women between zero to five years, and then depending on where they are on their stage, we find a lot of businesses that after they've gotten their feet wet,  perhaps in the fourth and fifth year. 

They might need more strategy and less of the challenge in community and accountability, but they need more strategy to help them. That's where a mastermind likely will take place.  We have had a few individuals,  actually a good handful, that had wanted to do the mastermind, so it's just a matter of me getting organized, Andrea and getting it done. Probably this summer we'll launch it and they can all start for at least probably six months to a year, depending on what they need.

Andrea Johnson:  Exciting, and there's a lot there. Do you see yourself doing this full-time? 

Sophia Noreen: It's interesting, right? Because I'm still managing the part-time clinic,  and because of COVID and because we don't have much of a social life right now so I think because of that, I had a lot more time and I really would have to weigh if I can continue to do both, because like you said, there's a product-based business  and now there's a service-based business , there's a podcast and then, we can't forget about the rest of our life. Being a mom, running the household.

Andrea Johnson: How many kids do you have?

 Sophia Noreen: I have two girls.

Andrea Johnson:  Two girls, okay. So you got a lot going on in your house, that's for sure.

 Sophia Noreen: I'm surprised you can hear them right now 

Andrea Johnson: Well, I heard some stuff upstairs in my house running around. . I  have one boy, that's enough.   So let's transition into talking  a little bit about what leadership means to you, but you clearly have some principles by which you function and maybe it's somewhere in the six needs and understanding yourself. But if there was one leadership principle that you could say you live by on a daily basis, what might that be? 

Sophia Noreen: I would say the phrase, "Own it." I really believe that if you can visualize it or you have an eagerness to do something, it's a calling that you need to do it and you should just own it, and don't shy away from it. You can make the plan. I always say, make a plan and take action. But basically the principle to say that it is your responsibility, if it's coming through you to do it. So for example, I could have ignored  that little voice inside of me that said, "Oh, what about Also Sophia? Oh, you have a clinic job that's so good, and you're getting paid six figures." 

  I could have ignored that and just carried on for the next 20 years, and then retire But  I decided that it wasn't going to be the case and I needed to act on this So if anybody who has been sitting on the fence about jumping and doing something, there is always a parachute or a trampoline at the bottom if you're afraid. Likely if you're a thoughtful individual with some critical thinking, you're not going to splat on the ground. 

Andrea Johnson: I like that phrase . If you're thinking about the transition, then you would probably are a thoughtful critical thinker. Oh gosh, I'm glad we're recording this.   Because a lot of times the things that hold people back are fear, which is not necessarily thoughtful.  Sorry I'm a little gobsmacked by the thoughtful critical thinker but it's so simple. It's just so simple, so I love that. Own it, take ownership of it and you could have easily done the messy DIY's yourself, but you decided to share. The other piece that keeps popping up, I think is that it's all very service-oriented.

 You knew that it wasn't just you that needed these things. It wasn't just your kids that you wanted to have a good holiday.  It was other people's kids. It's a bonus that you make money doing it. I think that what I hear from you is that it's a service-oriented  motivation.

 Sophia Noreen: Definitely. I laugh when people think, "Oh, the businesses is for the money." And I'm like "Oh guys actually I would have been better off being a physiotherapist".  People were like, "Why don't you open your own clinic? " I don't know what it was. I think maybe because I knew other physiotherapists were already out there doing the same, and you don't really need another physiotherapy clinic because you got five in my five kilometer radius. 

There ain't no need really for another physiotherapy clinic. But there's nobody that I can see we're the only people Walmart Canada has on their shelf because nobody else can supply. They either haven't thought about it or they have thought about it and they've done the cost of it like it's not worth it. There's a lot more money in the other holidays at this point, until it becomes more established or there's more of a cultural or social eagerness. Not everybody who's a Muslim faith is celebrating Ramadan and their house and set up decorations yet, but everybody who celebrates Christmas had some sort of Christmas paraphernalia or winter paraphernalia .

Andrea Johnson: Something Even if it's just a snowman.

Sophia Noreen: That's right  That's right, that's right. I think it's interesting that you said, you're right it's the service. In a way that even though it's a product-based business  I guess it was a service. I don't know.

Andrea Johnson: Here's what else I heard, and I identify with it as well.  You said there's five physiotherapists in a five kilometer radius.  It's just like you had a unique idea. This goes back to your "Own  it" principle  You had something that was unique and ingenious and different.  There's a great book out there called Blue Ocean, and I don't know if you've read it, but it's the idea of having sharks in the water or not.  When you look out and see a blue ocean, there's no sharks in the water. That means it's free sailing, in my terminology   but when you look at a red ocean is one that there's lots of sharks in the water and there's lots of competition, and you don't want to be in that water. You looked out and saw a wide open blue ocean, because it's probably not just your neck of the woods that you could sell these things too.  So I'm waiting for the day that you've got Walmart corporate in your sites.

Sophia Noreen:  I hope so. I hope so. I'm trying to list them on .ca right now, Walmart.ca because Ontario stores, this is the interesting part of our story. Lockdown happened in Canada in Ontario on the day that our products hit the shelf this year.  It gets better, Andrea.

Lockdown happens but the Ontario government says it goes to the big retailers and you can't sell anything that's non-essential.  There is literally a sign on the end cap, on the display that we've made saying this section is closed.

Andrea Johnson: So it's really not about the money? 

Sophia Noreen: No, not at all about the money. I think to myself, I'm like, is this a sign from God or just bad luck.  I don't know what to think of this.  So when I was listing the products online and it told me, it said holidays. Everything was listed, we've got the Christmas, Easter and the Hanukkah, this and that, that, and then the other.

And I'm like, I guess we'll just be in the other category. So I'm waiting for the day when it's listed.  So in that way, they can have a strategy and it will be easier for them and easier for the customers to be like, okay, it's in this area because right now they're walking around the store trying to figure out where they can go. 

Andrea Johnson: Well, you have to start somewhere and it's easy for a white suburban woman like me.  A white Christian suburban women like me to say, "Hey girl, you got to start somewhere." I do not mean to be flipped with that. 

Sophia Noreen: No, that's okay. 

Andrea Johnson: I didn't think you would take it that way. I just want to make sure that I made it really clear. I didn't mean that a derogatory way.  The starting is, in Korea, they say, Shijagi Banida, which means starting is half the battle.  Starting is half done. Sorry, Koreans don't talk battle their scholars.  Seriously.  Okay, so you have "own it" as your principle. Is there a habit that you have on a daily basis that helps you remember that? Say this is my vision, I'm owning this. This is my responsibility. 

 Sophia Noreen: I do have habits that will help me align with what the goals are.  I will look at my agenda and I have a thoughtful to do list, I don't have a long to-do list. What I do is  I only have the three big items that need to be completed that day. So,  today is, this is one of the big three. So I'm getting it done.

Andrea Johnson: The MIT, the most important  task. 

Sophia Noreen: That's right. That's right. But in regards to own it or getting it done, and I think they're all aligned with it because if I didn't tell myself I have to own it  the night before and say, "Okay, this is what I'm doing the next day," that's really one of the habits that I've really tried to establish. I brought back my paper-based agenda, which I used to use a lot when I was in university and in college,  for some reason drop that habit.

And then I realized I was the most productive individual when I was an undergraduate, doing the undergraduate degree because I had no choice. There was urgent deadlines. I was owning it then, and so the paper-based agenda is back. I will look at the day and the next day, and I'll say, "Okay, what's due?"

Really anything that I've set myself up for, so meetings or tasks that needs to be done, the businesses I should say, or podcasts. Just being mindful that I've owned it and I've taken account of it and stock of it, and then assigned it for the week. And so that's I think a habit that everyone would use in any part of their life, be it as an entrepreneur, be it as a mom, be it as an employee, be it as a student,  really taking stock of what's going to happen over the next two weeks and then say, "Okay, where are my agenda? Where do I have time to fit these tasks?" and then just not overwhelm yourself with the day to day. Make sure you have the time to cook yourself a meal or for me is give myself time to finish my laundry and put it away, as opposed to just holding it and letting it sit in the basket for a week. 

Yes, you got to be honest with yourself. Like, "Okay, I'm halfway there."

Andrea Johnson:  It's dry.  "Mom, I don't have any underwear." "They're in the dryer." 

Sophia Noreen: Exactly, the conversation I have with my kids on a regular basis. 

Andrea Johnson: Yes. You know what Noreen, this is a theme that I hear. I'm writing it down. I'm like paper-based agenda which in American-English is, this is your journal. This is your day-timer. This is whatever.  I should go back and check all my notes to see, but I feel like just about every guest says I write things down. You, yourself said  because I had to go back to the same thing.

I was trying to do it all online, or I was trying to keep track of it and I had to write things down. I've famously in my podcast, in my Facebook group have shared different productivity tools and it all comes down to this. Everybody says, I write things down. 

Sophia Noreen: That's right. There's a neurological connection between your hand and your brain when you write things down. You will remember it more and you take it a little bit more seriously.  I still use the online tools. 

Andrea Johnson: I use the calendars. 

Sophia Noreen: Yes. We use the  calendar, and the agenda. I actually will look at my agenda on the phone or on the computer and then I'll write it into my paper-based agenda and then  I'll work around my meetings. I'm blocking off this time.  There's a few new tools now on Outlook. Cortana, C-O-R-T-A-N-A just started coming up on my email, and what it does, it's so cool actually. It actually scans all your emails. It will see if you have committed to something, it's scary. It's like an AI.

Andrea Johnson: Google does that. 

Sophia Noreen: You said you were going to do this, you didn't do it. And then it'll allow you to book, focus time, catch up on messages, take a break and learning.  It will actually scan your entire agenda for the week, the next week and then you can book everything in.  So I was like, "Okay, this is good." 

Andrea Johnson: Creepy, but good. 

Sophia Noreen: I know. It's how much help is too much help.  

Andrea Johnson: Cool. Okay, so  the other couple of things I like to grab for our listeners, especially for people like you who are real go-getters are if somebody was interested in launching a product-based business, let's say that because even the service-based part is you teach people how to launch product-based business.

So if somebody were your ownership principle, if they've got that in their mind, there's something they think they want to do.  Instead of red flags that would stop them from doing something, what are maybe some green flags in their personality, or the way they're thinking about it or in their life or whatever, what are some green flags they might look for to say, "Yep, it's the right time to start a business?"

Sophia Noreen: Definitely looking for the needs in the market. Even for yourself, if you're a customer of your own product and you'd find that there's something that is really standing out about your product that no one else can offer or it's so unique, or you have a unique following that would benefit from it, then that's a green flag that you should keep going with it. You shouldn't stop yourself because this is the way I see it. This is the way we speak about it in Boss It Club is that you can't serve every single client. You are going to be servicing a very specific individual. So even as a product-based entrepreneur, if you're for example, a cake-maker, we have a ton of bakers up here.

Making custom cakes, or making custom cookies. You can only make so many if you're making it yourself from your home, and your idea is not to scale.  If you want to scale, then you might want to try to figure out how you can clip a bigger segment of the population, but you're only going to be able to service so many people in your geography so they can pick up the cakes from their home.

As long as you can say to yourself, "This is the person I want to serve, and this is how I'm going to serve them the best that I can provide this specialized cake to them,"  that's a green flag.  Don't be looking at all of the social media and  there's a baker sale in another town that's doing same cake as you, or something like that.

Getting upset by that because, "Oh, they're taking my cake design," or whatever it may be. It could be anything for that matter, because that person is not going to be working like the same neighborhood.

Yes, neighborhood. Like you won't be able to service all of their the same clients that they have, because they're in a different geography than you. So don't be afraid of the competition. Look at how you can serve your clients or your customers in a unique way, the best way you can serve them.  Another really great tip is if you see people reaching out to you, to collaborate, don't shy away from that because the biggest thing I find in business is you need a community. You can't do this on your own. If you can, but it's very hard and you might burn out. So if you can collaborate with other people in a similar fashion, like I've collaborated with quite a few small business owners that sell similar products, the reason why I'm not scared to do that is because I know that their client is slightly different than my client.

Even if they were the same client, that's okay.  I'd rather collaborate with you than view as competition, and it's a very different mindset because I think, as business owners, we are afraid sometimes to share our product ideas or we're afraid to necessarily collaborate because they're afraid of competition, and that's okay. You have to be wise and not give away all your trade secrets, but at the same time. Yes, so lots of green flags. I hope that was a little helpful. 

Andrea Johnson: Yes. Do you find that those also feed into a little bit of the advice, what is like the one piece of advice other than own it and just do it, if there was one big piece of advice for somebody starting out with their product-based business. These green flags sound a little bit like advice, but is there one big piece that you have to tell every single person? 

Sophia Noreen: I would say make a plan and because I think a lot of people just jump into it two feet, and they forget that you need to measure, or you need to make a nice diligent plan and then it will be easier to keep the smart goals, like the specific measurable goals because we're not going to be able to do everything. So as long as you can be truthful with yourself, be like "Okay, well I want to start this business and I can carve out an hour or two hours every night. I'm going to let my spouse nor my significant other know, or my family members know, or whoever in the house that might impact. Can you please reserve this time off for me because I'd like to really make sure I have that focus time so I can carve out these,  get these actions done to accomplish this goal that I have at the end of the month."  I think if you can structure a nice plan like that, and then get more people on board, we say we expand our unit. For example, you want to expand your team, even though you're not physically doing anything or they're not being paid,  they are supporting you. In a way you need to have them part of it at the end of the day, like Andrea, I know that your husband probably knows a lot about your business because you had to involve him and let him know that this is what's happening and this is my plans and my goals. 

Andrea Johnson: Yes, I really liked that. It's that a lot of times we think of a team as people who do things in our business. I love how you tiptoed in there. The team doesn't have to be people who do things. They can just be a support group. In Teneshia Jackson Warner's book, I just finished reading The Big Stretch and she talks about your dream champions and your dream bullies. It's like, you need some dream champions.  You need some people who are going to support and quite frankly, you need people who are willing to give you the space you need. They need to be on board. That's some great, great advice.  Awesome, okay really good stuff.  So we mentioned that you do have mailing list and have you started your Facebook group yet? 

Sophia Noreen: We haven't officially kicked off the free Facebook group yet.

Andrea Johnson: So we'll put in the show notes how to get on the mailing list so that they will know when the Facebook group is ready and the course that you have, and we will definitely link to your podcast, all the places where they can find you. Where's the best place for people to find you? 

Sophia Noreen: Both active places, probably are Instagram, but we do have a Facebook page as well . You can message us on Facebook, you can message us on Instagram, the mailing list and then of course you can catch us live or not live. I guess you can catch the recordings of our podcast. We release them every Tuesday and email, a good old fashioned email. It's [email protected], so they can always just reach out to us there as well. 

Andrea Johnson: Boss it, B-O-S-S-I-T.com.  This has been really fun and it's been really enlightening.  There's so much good stuff here. I always ask people, as we wrap up our conversation, it's always supposed to be like 30-40 minutes and it's always like an hour. That's the feedback I get from my husband. Your podcast interviews are too long. I'm like, "You're not my target audience. It's no big deal."  So what I love to ask women is because I'm all about intentional optimism. It's about deciding and being optimistic and looking for hope, and looking for ways to actually make it better. Your stuff goes right along with that. What is the one thing that you can always be optimistic about even when everybody else thinks you're crazy? 

Sophia Noreen: Oh my gosh. That's a hard question.  I think we've had quite crazy year. This year with COVID and lots of people have passed on.  I think you really have to be optimistic about where we are right now in this moment, because it's a gift really and truly, and I know that sounds cliche, but I know that you have the Christian faith and me, have the Muslim faith. We do believe in a higher power and I'm optimistic that everything that's happening is happening for us through God. 

Sometimes we feel like something's against us or things are not working in our favor.  The whole Walmart debacle this year with them closing down the minute it hits the shelf. I just have to remind myself that that's a really pessimistic situation.  People were like, "Oh my gosh, we might be losing money and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah." But I have to be optimistic in that, God has a plan for us. We don't actually know what is in store, and so COVID taking so many lives. We have to be optimistic in that we're here and we're able to serve people and help people and motivate people and provide products for people, and whatever other goals that you have for yourself.  You're able to accomplish it because you have that beautiful brain that has given you this thought or this vision,  and now it's up to you now to act on it. I think that's probably the best way of explaining my optimism and how I've been able to carry through and carry forth this for the past 12 months. 

Andrea Johnson: Yes. That's really good, and you're right. I have another guest who said, today is the gift. That's all we have is today. So this has been a fabulous conversation. I'm excited to know you better, and now is there anything I forgot to ask you? 

Sophia Noreen: I think we covered a lot. Thank you so much for having me. It was wonderful, it was a great conversation. 

Andrea Johnson: Thank you so much for being here. I really, really appreciate you,  and we will make sure that everybody knows where to find you on social media and everywhere else. Thanks Noreen.

Sophia Noreen:  Okay. Take care. 

Andrea Johnson: How refreshing was this conversation? She only wanted some crafts for her kids and ended up with their own specialty business. How smart is she to figure out how to recruit Instagram influencers to promote the products, making them popular enough to sell the regional Walmart on carrying them in store as well as online. Granted, COVID hit messing up the in store part, but still she had a need but didn't think only of herself in meeting it.

She created an opportunity for other families to share and in the process, inspired other women to begin their own businesses and now she's teaching them how to do it. Leadership encapsulated. So let's look at how Noreen lives out the tenants of intentional optimism and the principles of unconventional leadership.

She's optimistic in her confidence in her ability to make things happen. She sees possibilities. She heads straight for them, paving the way for others to follow. Now, Noreen is very present.  She celebrates the daily joys of life,  the wonder and beauty of time with her family. Always curious about what could be better and what could be next.

She's generous with her time and expertise helping other women find freedom and empowerment in starting their own businesses. Her industrious streak is all the evidence necessary of the energy she possesses.  It shows up in her creative ideas for all her products,  how she managed to grow her business on social media, as well as the joy and excitement she fosters in the families that purchase her products as well as her own. Noreen showed immense courage when she decided to step down from her secure job with a secure future, to be true to her desire, to be home with her family yet still provide for them by then starting her own business. She's been a leader since high school and has built up her resilience through the years. Consistently trying new things in an effort to both find the right fit for herself and to help others.

She has the wisdom to both see and understand the need for someone to step up, someone who truly gets it all while demonstrating respect for others and the process. Through her teaching and mentoring, she clearly demonstrates how to learn and grow so that others can follow, and finally, Noreen is very intentional.

She has planned, plotted and projected all with a solid purpose in mind.  She pursues personal growth on a regular basis and demonstrated a propensity for skill stacking while she was still in college. Noreen is unconventional in her leadership because her passion for building her business and teaching others to build theirs is fueled by her core values of presence, planning and service.

She's a role model to both her children, as well as other women  who she's teaching to follow in her footsteps and is consistently involved in some kind of learning opportunity in order to grow her skills and maximize her strengths. Unconventional leaders lead at every level in any area using their unique gifts, and Noreen has some tips on how to determine whether or not and how to proceed with your own product-based business. 

All right, here we go. First, look for the needs in the market. For Noreen, the need was present in her family and faith community. Where do you see a need in your life? Necessity is the mother of invention, they say.  Even Gatorade started out as a way to help one football team stay hydrated in the hot Florida weather, and look where they are now.  Next, don't shy away from either competition or collaboration. Look, you need a community. Even if it's competitors running that race with you. 

Noreen shared the example of a baker, understanding and collaborating with bakers from other towns, you can only serve so many homes and so big of a radius when you're baking out of your home.  Learn from what others are doing and collaborate with them. You know what they say about great minds? Not only do they think alike, but they're better together. You get three or more, and you've got the makings of your very own mastermind group of bakers. 

Number three, make a plan.  She was pretty adamant about this one.  Be diligent about what needs to happen, how and when. Use smart goals. Of course, this may require some extra learning on your part, and there are tons of places to learn all your business skills.  Besides between Noreen and me, you've got some pretty good options. 

And number four, take action. Recruit a team to help you. They don't have to be paid employees, people. I have an amazing group of women who support me on various levels and I call them my dream champions. Now I didn't come up with that term, I got it from The Big Stretch book. Noreen recruited specific Instagram influencers to share and promote her products, and they flew off the shelves. You never know who will rally behind you and your dream so step into it with confidence and let them fill your sails with encouragement and help if they've got it to give. 

Noreen can be found on most social media platforms, and of course we've listed all of them for you in the show notes. Are you out there listening, thinking, you know I might want to get a little more involved in this intentional optimism thing.  Well, the easiest place to start is our Facebook community, Intentional Optimists.

We're building a community with a culture that helps us all learn to think and live with intentional optimism.  And if by chance, you're not a social media person but you want more information, you need my newsletter, Optimistic Living. It's good stuff delivered to your inbox on a weekly basis. Just click that link in the notes.

Now, for those of you who have been listening to me for a while, you know I specialize in helping you do things. That's why I give you a list every single episode of one, two, three, four.  So let's figure out how to help you do what you need to step into, otherwise that pretty little boat of yours, that dream? It's just going to sit on the beach.  Now's the time my friend. The help and support of a fantastic community of other growing women is ready and available.  

Join us. The water's calm and the sand at the beach is warm and welcoming. Come launch your dream business or personal growth journey with us.  Launch from the beach is a collaborative community exactly like Noreen was talking about.  A place where we invest in each other,  encourage, support and even push each other to grow.  You know what to do, click the link. 

Of course, thanks for your time today, wherever you listen.  If you find this podcast helpful and encouraging first, follow us then take a moment and leave a rating and review. Your kind words and positive rating will help even more women find us and get the intentional optimism they need.  Remember,  unconventional leaders lead at every level in any area using their unique gifts. You, my friend are a leader. You are the future of leadership and the role models for future generations. Until next time.