Episode 12 | How to Avoid A Bad Client Experience with Laura and Sophia Noreen

Laura: [00:00:00] [00:00:00]

Welcome everyone here at Boss It.  We would love to hear from you. Join us in our Boss It community by heading over to our website, bossitclub.com and join our mailing list. As we grow, we will be launching our community of fellow Boss It BFFs, and we want you to be a part of it. 

Okay. Sophia Noreen. Let's dig into this

Sophia Noreen : [00:00:20] In today's episode, we are actually going to be talking about  how to avoid a bad client experience. And we are going to speak about one specific pillar of business, a fundamental pillar of business that you need to nail down.  And we're going to show you how this specific pillar of business can help you avoid those bad client experiences. So get ready to listen. And if you are sitting down at a desk or you have access to a pen and paper, try to take notes because we have some great tips for you and great takeaways.

If you don't have access to a pen and paper, that's fine. When you get home, just try to write down the tips so you can really leverage the tricks and tips we have for you,  [00:01:00] so you can execute immediately in your business.

We have Laura joining us and I cannot wait to get started and see what she has to say about this topic.

Before we get started. I want to give a listener shout out. Thank you to Fakih 21, who gave a five star rating on iTunes. And this is what she had to say. "Very inspiring. It's interesting to hear the journey of starting up your own business and the different aspects of it. I love hearing Sophia's stories and our tips on how to get there. It's very inspiring and I admire her hard work and efforts." Thank you so much. Faqih 21. I really appreciate your review. And so does Laura and we love to hear your view, guys. We'd love to know what you're thinking and how we are helping you out. So head over to iTunes and leave us an amazing review. Read every single one of them.  So please do not hesitate, and we will definitely share it on our podcast.

Okay. Let's continue with our show.

Sophia Noreen: [00:01:51] Welcome to the Boss It Podcast. My name is Sophia Noreen and I took an Etsy startup and launched it in [00:02:00] big box retailers within 12 months. As a creative with an entrepreneurial drive, I left my full time career in healthcare to find better harmony between career, family and self care. We believe you can have it all.

Yes, you can launch and run a successful scalable business while maintaining harmony in all aspects of your life. We believe we can learn from each other and draw on many experiences to create the best life possible. During each episode, we will share proven life hacks that will keep you on top and striving every day.

There should be no hesitation.Make a plan. Take action. We are here for you.

This episode of the Boss It Podcast is brought to you by the Full Focus Planner. Guys, trust me, it's super difficult to run a business, plus have yourself organized with everyday life. Trust me. I know.  We have found that the Full Focus Planner is the best planner to help me  and it's the best planner that will help you stay focused every day. What I love most about this planner is that this, it does a really good job of breaking down your quarterly [00:03:00] goals. And then it helps translate them into weekly goals and daily goals. Head over to the link in our show notes to check out this fantastic planning tool.  All right, guys, let's get started. 

Sophia Noreen : [00:03:09] Hello, everyone. Welcome to another amazing episode of the Boss It Podcast. And today we have Laura with us. I am so super excited that she's here and we are going to learn about how to avoid a bad client experience. And I know Laura being a seasoned entrepreneur. She grew up in an entrepreneurial family. Plus she has been a photographer for a number of years, has a lot of experience when it comes to avoiding a bad client experience. So Laura, how is it going? And I'm so happy you're here today.

Laura : [00:03:40] I know. I took a quick sabbatical and I was so glad to be back. I can't wait to share everything today. It's going to be wonderful.

Sophia Noreen : [00:03:47] Okay. So we're talking about bad client experiences. I know that this is a common occurrence for many people, especially people in the service industry, because you guys are so closely tied to your client. [00:04:00] You guys are working with them directly, versus those in product-based businesses may not have the same level of experience with bad client experiences. We do have some, of course. We do have returns and complaints, but I think a service-based iIndustry professional has a bit more  experience.  

Laura : [00:04:15] Yeah, I think for sure with a service based businesses is something I hear about all the time. And, I think the idea for this podcast came from a  phone conversation that we had a few months ago.

Sophia Noreen : [00:04:26] Oh yeah, definitely. We chat on the phone every day  and a few months ago, I think it was last month, actually, me and Laura went off on a tangent. I was picking up the girls from school and she started to tell me about all of the experiences some other photographers were having. And I'll let her get into that story. Tell us more about that story that you shared with me that day.

Laura : [00:04:44] Yeah, for sure. As a photographer, obviously I'm part of a lot of community-based Facebook groups. I think a lot of different niches within the entrepreneurial industry right now, we're so social media, like, brings us together as a community. And often going through these groups and [00:05:00] whatnot, I hear so many...  there was a period of time that I just kept hearing so many complaints about, oh, I had this awful bride. Or, oh, I had this terrible, family client or... just so many complaints were coming up. And I think I told you, I couldn't believe how many people were unhappy. And we hashed it out because I'm always  one to reflect. And I think it's so important to do that. And I was trying to think back, I think you even said to me, "have you had  bad clients?" And I thought and thought about it and I'm, honestly, I haven't. I've been so lucky that I haven't had a bad client experience. But I think upon reflection, it was like that as Oprah would say that, a-ha moment, that there's a reason why. I think there's so many important steps you can take to help mitigate that risk for the bad client experience. And I think I was doing a really good job at defining my ideal client, which is here, like the a-ha moment. I was doing such a good job at defining my ideal client that what I was [00:06:00] putting out into the world was matching up with the people who are in need of my services.

Sophia Noreen : [00:06:05] That's it. Yeah. And I love that. So essentially, you reflected based on the stories you were hearing from other professionals that they were really struggling that particular year, with having client experiences that were not the most enjoyable or positive. And then you, upon reflecting, were like, no, I haven't had as many encounters with that. And that's because you've nailed down your ideal client.

Laura : [00:06:26] Yeah. So I think it's so important to identify at the beginning of your business  who your ideal client is. Because I was particular in what I am selling and what I'm putting out there into the world. I've been so fortunate enough to match with the people that are in need of those things. And then the vibe just meshes.  That's why I get the awesome clients that I do is because I knew who I was targeting. I knew who I wanted to photograph and subsequently those people are attracting back to me and, their needs and [00:07:00] expectations are meeting my product or service. And overall it's just become just a great experience all around. Yeah,  I think that's a key aspect of really avoiding bad client experiences.

Sophia Noreen : [00:07:13] That is very insightful. I don't think many people have connected the fact that if you're having a bad client experience, is it because the person you're actually providing service to is not your ideal client? I don't think many have actually made that connection. Now, I want to ask you, when you were in those Facebook groups and you were seeing all this dialogue, was that pointed out by anybody in those groups? Did anybody say, hey, maybe that person wasn't your ideal client and that's why they didn't have such an enjoyable experience.

Laura : [00:07:41] To be honest, I'm not sure, like you said, I don't think a lot of people realize that. For me, early on seeing every service-based business has their own brand and their own approach.  So for me, some couples that are getting married, the first thing they do when they get married is go straight to the newstand, pick up the latest Vogue [00:08:00] wedding magazine, and they've got their Pinterest board going with every single pose that they want for their entire day. Whereas for me, I knew that wasn't the type of business I wanted to run. I wanted to attract people who were into living in the moment and hanging out with family and friends and that the entire day wasn't just about a pose for a photo.

And so I think for me, when I had that vibe of where I wanted to go, I based my ideal client around that. And so I think, Noreen, can you explain to us more for people because obviously it's an exercise I've done. But I love how you explain and how you explained to me, how to, when you're creating your ideal client, how you would refer to that in the things that we would think of.

Sophia Noreen : [00:08:49] Yeah, for sure. So for anybody who's new to business or just starting out in business or be it a service or product business, you have to be able to clearly [00:09:00] know who your ideal client is, and the reason I'm being so particular and clearly defining your ideal client is because in business, you can't service everyone.

So Laura, being a photographer, one of my very good friend, she's an event planner. And we talk about this stuff all the time on our casual phone chats. And it becomes obvious at times when, for example, Laura will say,  'I didn't get the client", if she goes for photography meet and greets, and that's okay. Because that client obviously may have not been your ideal target audience. And we don't want to service people that are not our ideal clients. Now there is the demographics of your client.

Those are like your age, your gender, your marital status, and all the things that kind of go under demographics. And then you also have the psychographics, which is a bit more of a deeper, and a bit more of a longer exercise to understand the psychology of your client. So for example, in my product based business, I had a good friend who would always be like," I wouldn't buy that from you". And I'd be like, " that's okay because you're not my target audience". She is  [00:10:00] very cautious with buying products. She doesn't spend money where it's not necessary. And my  ideal client, their psychographics are such that they like to spend money on convenience.

And they like to spend money on things that will bring them value but they're still conscientious with costs.  The psychographics are a bit harder to tease out. And so Laura's psychographics for her client, I thought, were very interesting. Because like you just mentioned, when somebody is getting married and they're doing their Pinterest board, and it's full of Vogue magazine articles versus somebody who wants to live in the moment. That's like a psychographic for your client. 

Laura : [00:10:36] Sure. And I loved how you described it to me when we talked through this. As you told me, create an avatar of the person you're thinking. So break it right down to every little aspect. Is it male? Is it female? What's their age? What do they like to do for fun? What's their entertainment look like? Where do they spend their time? What does their home look like? What does their [00:11:00] family look like? All of those things are so important. Like, I remember back when I started business. I would go through the Stats Can books just to see what my community was made up of, like, how many people had disposable income. What was the median age? Because I was so specific on who I was targeting and I wanted to find where they were. knowing your ideal client is such an important stepping stone for so many areas in your business, including avoiding bad experiences. But so many other things of just like marketing and we could go on for days about what this ties into, but I just think it's so important that avatar is really defined for you. It's going to save you so much heartache in the long run.

Sophia Noreen : [00:11:43] Yeah, you said it. If you can do this exercise where you can understand your client, not just only the psychographics. But Laura went through a very detailed exercise by understanding the demographics of our clients because her industry really relies on disposable income, which I really liked that [00:12:00] .For family photos, those who spend money every year on family photos versus those who just do the milestone moments. That all is reflected on the income of the client. That is one of the foundations. When you are starting any business, be it service or product, you need to understand who your ideal client is. And the take home is you don't serve everyone.  Your service does not meet everyone's needs.

Laura : [00:12:23] I think just the bad client experiences. I know we've discussed many on the phone, but I think  that is the key, right? Like you're going to attract the wrong people to your service because you don't want to service everyone. You don't want to be everything to everyone. It's too hard for you to operate a business that way. So it is great if you can change that down to who exactly it is that you want to service. And another great point is you don't have to be your ideal client as you were alluding to.  You had a friend that sort of said "I wouldn't buy your products," and that's fine.  Maybe you're the same [00:13:00] person. Maybe I wouldn't spend the money on wedding photography as the person that I'm attracting or et cetera. Like, maybe I don't drive a BMW, but my avatar is the type of person who is, I don't know. I'm just saying you don't have to be that client to target that client. You just have to be in their mind, in their head, like you said. The psychographics of it all is just knowing who they are, what they do and make friendships and connections with the people that are your ideal client as well. And that'll help attract your and expand your network.

Sophia Noreen : [00:13:32] Yeah, definitely.  you're right. You have to get into your client's head. So for example, I can share quickly a story where when I just started the product-based business, I could tell. During the shows I would go to these, they're like little bazaars, and I could tell if the customer was my ideal client just by them walking into the hall. So we would be in a, usually these banquet halls had these bazaars and I could tell if that person was my ideal client from the way they walked, from the way they dressed, from the [00:14:00] way they approached every stall. Like, they're not the negotiating type - they're there on a mission. They're there to find their convenient product and get out. And 9 times out of 10, I was right. So really understanding  your client to that degree is going to be valuable, Laura said, for every aspect of your business, including marketing. And that's a big topic, which we're not going to touch on today because it is huge. And in a future episode, we'll definitely, probably highlight some more of that.

Laura : [00:14:23] Yeah, but like you said, it's so important. So many decisions come from who you're targeting. And so I think that something, when you're creating your business plan, or if you're already in business and haven't already done it, you need to go back and really just put pen to paper and work out all  those little specific pieces of information about who it is you're targeting and make sure it's not everyone.

Sophia Noreen : [00:14:47] It's not everyone. Another friend, she was upset that she didn't get a client. And I said to her, I'm like, your service does not meet their needs. Increase your prices because she was trying to get everyone. And I said, no, you're too busy. [00:15:00] Now you need to understand that you cannot service everyone. 

So I love this, Laura. I love this episode. I think a lot of people really get hung up on just trying to service everyone and they don't have to. That's not the goal here. The goal is to make sure your service meets their needs, and then you can avoid this bad client experience altogether. Okay. So I know Laura has some great tactics and tricks for us. If you're new to business, how to nail down your ideal client. 

Laura : [00:15:26] Okay. Awesome. So I think when you get to the point, when you're putting pen to paper and trying to decide who your ideal client is, yeah. And because I've had a variety of businesses and business ideas and plans. Sometimes I find it hard to just define exactly who that avatar is. So something that could really help you in that process is creating a focus group.

Right now with social media, we have such an easy way to make focus groups. Think of people in your local mom groups, or local networking groups, something like that. Grab a group of people. And [00:16:00] obviously virtually now is the greatest way to do it and start creating relationships and gather insight from them, quiz them about things that they like or dislike.

Ask them about their lifestyle and things they need or don't need. There's so many ways you can go about asking people and gathering information before you actually make that decision of who is your ideal fit. But like, do the research. Definitely get out there and ask the questions because it's only going to benefit you.

The more you can niche down and target a specific audience and know everything about them, the better you can service those people. And I think, for example, something like that comes out down the road  in the woodwork is I just think of this one instance is I was asked at one point, as a service-based business, often we're asked to donate our time for certain tasks or, events.

And that's great. I totally agree that we should do it because it's a great way for [00:17:00] networking. But in this instance, I was asked to photograph a golfing charity sort of event.  At first, my instinct was to say yes, because I like to help and contribute to the community and be there and be present. But after thinking about it a little more, I related it back to my ideal client, which led to me saying no.

So I asked some questions about the charity event. It was going to be mainly males that were attending, and really just for that reason in of itself was the reason I ended up saying, no, it wasn't a good fit for me. I knew that 90% of the people who booked me are female-oriented. And when it comes to making the wedding decisions and who their photographer is going to be. Women clients tend to be my lead. They are the ones who are booking me. So having myself at a golf charity wasn't really a good fit for who that ideal client and avatar was. So I said, no.

Sophia Noreen : [00:17:56] And I think that was the right thing to do . [00:18:00] You really have to understand that you can't service everyone. You, we've said that multiple times. And I think this example highlighted that . You could have used that as  way to network, but who are you networking with? Those weren't your ideal clients. They were, chances are, men who are middle-aged to the retirement age and Laura's ideal client is a female who wants to get married in cottage country.

Laura : [00:18:24] Absolutely, yeah, that's your thing. The golf charity was a good fit and it's hard to say no sometimes. But really defining that idea for yourself.  It'll pay off in the long run. It really helps guide your decisions and visions as you go forward in your business.

Sophia Noreen : [00:18:40] I love that story.

I love how you also avoided taking a client who wasn't your ideal client, because you knew you wouldn't be able to serve them. And you also knew that it could actually result in a bad client experience just because they were not your ideal client and the way you service your clients may have not met [00:19:00] their needs. What do you think about that? You think that's on point?

Laura : [00:19:03] Oh, for sure. Exactly. I think that when I created my ideal client, I had to get in their head and really know who they were. So I think you can get as minute of a detailed down to how the person even thinks. So for example, when you're looking at the wedding market, I knew that the type of bride I wasn't going to service well would be that bride who went to the grocery store. The second she was engaged to get her Vogue magazine to check out all the poses in the, on the spreads and the one who's Pinteresting all of the most beautiful poses there are, and it's board after board. I knew that wasn't my ideal client. And so I've been so specific to make sure that all my marketing and all my communication stemmed from who I wanted to service.  And that way I'm attracting the people who have the need and desire and want that match, [00:20:00] what I'm offering out into the world.

Sophia Noreen : [00:20:02] Yeah, that's fantastic. That, and I don't think. Many people actually consider that the bad client experience could be a result of the fact that they are not servicing their ideal client. And I think that's great how you've really nailed down, not in just your bridal industry in your wedding industry, but anything else that comes to you. Any other opportunities that come to you. You are doing a really great job of saying nope, I can't service you. And I think that is such a strong skill set to have as an entrepreneur. We are so eager. We are so ready to go and do the thing that we want to do. We are so ready to share with the world, but we have to back up, we have to pause and we have to think, are we doing the best for this particular client?

Sometimes it's okay to say, sorry, I don't think we're a good fit, but let me refer you on to somebody who would be a good fit. So Laura and her photography industry...

Laura : [00:20:49] Yes. All the yes to this.

Sophia Noreen : [00:20:51] ...has a huge network, of course, of fantastic photographers who she can refer to. And I know Laura has told me multiple times, she's not a big fan of infant [00:21:00] photography or baby photography, but she knows people who can do that. So why not build that network? And I know there's a ton of coaches out there who have the same dilemma. There's a ton of other industries that are in the same situation. Guys, it's okay to say no to a client and really serve the people who you can serve and in turn, give them the best experience possible.

Laura : [00:21:23] I love it. I love that. You're saying don't be everything to everyone. I think it's so true. You trap yourself in this area of  trying to be everything to everyone and yeah, that is exactly what leads to the bad client experiences. Trying to please these people who may not have the need or the expectation or desire for a service or product that you're actually offering.

And like you said, say no, or communicate, educate, put it out there what exactly it is you are and what you're serving. But you can only do that when you have identified that person. And so I think it's [00:22:00] so good to go back to the basics, like you said, and just create that avatar.

Sophia Noreen : [00:22:04] Exactly. And I just want to highlight on one more point. I'm not sure if you guys caught the episode just prior to this with Stephanie Andrews, but she speaks about  a bad client experience  quite openly. And I'm really humbled and happy that she was able to share that because it's a really raw story. And if you have not had a chance to listen to that episode, right after this episode, go listen to Stephanie Andrew's episode. Now, if we analyze her situation, we can definitely say that in her situation, she may not have had the insight at the time of taking on the client. But when she reflected on it, she said, yes, there were red flags that she had seen. And that client  was not her ideal client. And if you do end up signing something, or you do end up taking on a client that is not your ideal client but you realize throughout your service, that they're not the best person to be servicing cause their needs and your service are not meeting, then it's okay to fire the client. I know that sounds really bad, but like in healthcare, we do fire our patients. So [00:23:00] for example, as a physiotherapist, if my patient is going off and not complying to their treatment plan, we fire them. It's a liability on us. So I think as an entrepreneur and your service, your business and your reputation, it's okay to fire them.

It's very fundamental because remember, we also want to protect our own energies. We want to make sure that us as entrepreneurs are protecting our own reputation, our own brand, and we are people. So if your client is not giving you that wholesome experience that you are coming out and, enjoying the experience, then that's perfectly fine to let them go. Yeah.

Laura : [00:23:33] Yeah I think that early on in the business stages, This is the trap that so many people fall into, is trying to service and meet the needs of everyone. And I think this is the trap is you need to have that solid base of who it is you want to serve, and it's going to avoid you so much heartache in the end.

Sophia Noreen : [00:23:49] So guys, I know it seems very basic - your ideal client - but it's not. This is an exercise that is a fundamental pillar [00:24:00] of your business. You need to understand who you're serving, be it through your product or through your service. And you have to understand your client's psychographics. What are their barriers? What are their beliefs? What is preventing them from purchasing or  what is your product or service doing to help them alleviate whatever stress is being caused in their life. For example, in Laura's situation, I feel like if I was to evaluate her business, as a client, I would need photography. I would want my photography done by in such a style that it was candid and natural. And so Laura is going to meet my service needs in our product-based business. We have  a cost -conscientious individual who is looking for convenient, ethnic products.  In both those situations, you can see how niche we've gotten with our ideal client.

And I think this is a valuable exercise that everyone should do. We are going to have some, amazing worksheets that are going to be available in our community. So if you haven't done so, go onto bossitclub.com and [00:25:00] sign up on our mailing list because our community is going to be opening up shortly.

And this is a free community. Everyone is welcome to join and this is where we're going to support each other. And of course, we're going to have free bonus worksheets come out regularly for you.   Laura, do you have any other tips for our listeners on this topic? This extremely important. topic.

Laura : [00:25:18] No, I just think it's great to hear from everyone. So if you love the episode, definitely leave us a comment  in our community. We would love to hear from you. If you learned from this today or something really spoke to you,  we would love it  you would share it with your other entrepreneurial friends.

Sophia Noreen : [00:25:33] Yeah. This episode, guys, is gold. there's a lot of good tips on there, especially from Laura, about the focus group and how you can really evaluate your IC through running focus groups. So my suggestion is do your friends a favor and share this episode with them and go sign up for our mailing list on bossitclub.com.

And if you love this episode, we love your reviews. And remember, if you leave a review and you take a screenshot and share it on social [00:26:00] media, or take a screenshot of your review and email it to us at bossitclub.com, we are sending out our 50 best tips for entrepreneurship. And this 50 best tips is only for podcast reviewers. So make sure you get that done. I was so happy to have Laura on this episode. I hope she is going to be back for more regular episodes like this. 

Laura : [00:26:23] Let's do some finance talk next time.

Sophia Noreen : [00:26:25] Yes, please. What an important topic that no entrepreneur really wants to dig down deep because numbers scare people. You need to come back soon.

Laura : [00:26:34] Sounds good.

Sophia Noreen : [00:26:35] Okay guys, that's all we got for today. Thank you again for joining us. Remember, make a plan and take action and yes, you can have it all. Bye. 

Sophia Noreen: [00:26:44] So my fellow bosses, did you enjoy that episode? Now is time for you to make a solid plan and take action. But first, remember to subscribe and follow the Boss It Podcast so you receive a notification whenever we drop an episode. Remember to [00:27:00] leave us a review on iTunes. Take a screenshot of your review and share it on Instagram as a post or a story and tag us @BossItclub. If Instagram is not your thing, no worries. Email your screenshot to [email protected]. As a massive thank you, we will be sending you our Top 50 Tips for Starting and Scaling a Business. This list is exclusively for podcast reviewers. So don't miss out. Now remember bosses: make a plan and take action in all aspects of your life. Yes you can have it all.